At a time when it’s all very hip to name-drop
the likes of CBGB’s and The Ramones (not
that they don’t deserve all the praise they get) there are more than a few
bands that aren’t just missing the credit they deserve, but being virtually
ignored in those pages of shallow revisionism. Perhaps the best example of this
is The Dictators. First forming as far back as 1973 and releasing their
debut album, ‘Go Girl Crazy’, in 1975, they bridged the gap between Hard Rock,
the Glam of the New York Dolls and what was to become Punk Rock. As would also
be the case with the Ramones, they also evoked the spirit of Sixties Pop and
Surf music, embracing a sense of fun in their songs. Although their first album
was met with poor sales when initially released (a classic case of wrong place,
wrong time…) the band eventually became involved with the early CBGB’s scene,
both as fans and performers. However, despite popularity with audiences, they
still didn’t fit with what the mainstream music press wanted to cover and for
the most part didn’t get the coverage they should have warranted. In fact, the
only tale that always seems to be repeated to this day is the unfortunate
incident between Handsome Dick Manitoba and Jayne County which has since been
blown-out of all proportion (HDM and Jayne made-up and remain friends to this
day…) Nonetheless, it was used by some
to write-off The Dictators as part of that scene.
But despite the lack of attention from the press, as is often the case the music continued to speak for itself and earned a strong following around the world. In Japan, the excellent Teengenerate took their name from the Dictators’ song, while Turbonegro played homage to ‘Next Big Thing’ on their track ‘Get It On’. And when the remaining members of the MC5 reconvened to play their back catalogue once again, Handsome Dick Manitoba was one of the guest vocalists asked to perform with them.
Strangely, even at the height of Punk, the Dictators only toured in the UK once, supporting the Stranglers in 1977. Even in recent years, the band have sporadically played in Europe, but it was not until 2014 that the current line-up made it back to London. Albeit without founding-member Andy Shernoff and accordingly differentiated as Dictators NYC, it was still going to be a show not to be missed, and I was also very pleased to set-up an interview. Unfortunately, things did not run as smoothly as expected. Initially, I was due to meet HDM at their hotel before the gig, but this had to be postponed at the last minute when the soundcheck ran late. But I’m still on-track for an interview after the gig and I get to the venue really looking forward to the show. The band come on and kick off with the Wild Kingdom song ‘The Party Starts Now’, totally appropriate in the circumstances. Second song and they’re straight into ‘The Next Big Thing’, still my personal favourite, and they’re really sounding great. But then, things get messy… I go down to the front of the stage to take some photos only for one of the security to insist that I’m not allowed to. I show him the pass I’ve been given, but he decides it’s the wrong type of pass. So I move away from the area between the stage and the barrier and try to take photos from the audience. The same twat suddenly appears again, yelling that I’m not allowed to take photos at all ! This despite the fact that there’s probably a dozen people around me taking photos and even video on their cell-phones. When I try to tell him this, he gets stroppy (probably unable to cope with logic) and threatens to smash my camera ! Now, I do want to point out that this moron was not one of The Garage staff and had clearly been hired for the night, but it really was disconcerting that that this kinda jobsworth-thug still exists, especially at a rock’n’roll gig. Maybe you’d expect this kinda cop-mentality outside a Saturday-night pub in Romford, but not here, not anymore. Anyway, all I know was that, by the end of the night, I had enjoyed a great gig, despite his efforts. He’s probably still a miserable arsehole.
But despite the lack of attention from the press, as is often the case the music continued to speak for itself and earned a strong following around the world. In Japan, the excellent Teengenerate took their name from the Dictators’ song, while Turbonegro played homage to ‘Next Big Thing’ on their track ‘Get It On’. And when the remaining members of the MC5 reconvened to play their back catalogue once again, Handsome Dick Manitoba was one of the guest vocalists asked to perform with them.
Strangely, even at the height of Punk, the Dictators only toured in the UK once, supporting the Stranglers in 1977. Even in recent years, the band have sporadically played in Europe, but it was not until 2014 that the current line-up made it back to London. Albeit without founding-member Andy Shernoff and accordingly differentiated as Dictators NYC, it was still going to be a show not to be missed, and I was also very pleased to set-up an interview. Unfortunately, things did not run as smoothly as expected. Initially, I was due to meet HDM at their hotel before the gig, but this had to be postponed at the last minute when the soundcheck ran late. But I’m still on-track for an interview after the gig and I get to the venue really looking forward to the show. The band come on and kick off with the Wild Kingdom song ‘The Party Starts Now’, totally appropriate in the circumstances. Second song and they’re straight into ‘The Next Big Thing’, still my personal favourite, and they’re really sounding great. But then, things get messy… I go down to the front of the stage to take some photos only for one of the security to insist that I’m not allowed to. I show him the pass I’ve been given, but he decides it’s the wrong type of pass. So I move away from the area between the stage and the barrier and try to take photos from the audience. The same twat suddenly appears again, yelling that I’m not allowed to take photos at all ! This despite the fact that there’s probably a dozen people around me taking photos and even video on their cell-phones. When I try to tell him this, he gets stroppy (probably unable to cope with logic) and threatens to smash my camera ! Now, I do want to point out that this moron was not one of The Garage staff and had clearly been hired for the night, but it really was disconcerting that that this kinda jobsworth-thug still exists, especially at a rock’n’roll gig. Maybe you’d expect this kinda cop-mentality outside a Saturday-night pub in Romford, but not here, not anymore. Anyway, all I know was that, by the end of the night, I had enjoyed a great gig, despite his efforts. He’s probably still a miserable arsehole.
But, the gig, that’s the important thing ! Songs
from the ‘DFFD’ album like ‘Avenue A’ and ‘Who Will Save Rock’n’Roll ?’ plus
older faves like ‘Faster & Louder’ keep everyone more than happy, even if a
cover of the Flamin’ Groovies’ ‘Slow Death’ proves to be a little lack lustre
(I would’ve preferred to hear their great cover of ‘Search & Destroy’.) After
a full hour, the encore finally gives us one more cover, this time ‘Kick Out
The Jams’, as an appropriate nod to HDM’s last appearance on a London stage. It
had been a fine show, and I’m sure most people would agree, it had been
well-worth the wait.
Afterwards, I wait to interview Mr Manitoba, but he’s hanging-out at the t-shirt stall, chatting to fans and signing autographs. I can’t interrupt that kinda stuff, it’s important, so I’m patient and once he’s finished, we head back to the dressing room. Unfortunately, the rest of the band are almost packed-up and ready to leave, so HDM also offers to complete the interview by email, if necessary (which is indeed what happens for some of the final questions) but we head straight into the conversation regardless…
So, firstly, I wanted to ask how the band had first come together ?
‘It was back in about 1973, and there was an Upstate University called Newpaltz. It was a State University, but it was known as THE party school. We had some friends from the Bronx who went there, and they introduced us to this guy called ‘Rock’n’Roll Andy’, who was, of course, Andy Shernoff. Around the same time, we knew this guy called Ross, who was playing in a band called Total Crudd… a terrible band, but a fun band ! Well, Ross, Scott Kempner, who was my oldest friend, and Andy, decided to get a new band together. And that was really the embryo of The Dictators.’
Afterwards, I wait to interview Mr Manitoba, but he’s hanging-out at the t-shirt stall, chatting to fans and signing autographs. I can’t interrupt that kinda stuff, it’s important, so I’m patient and once he’s finished, we head back to the dressing room. Unfortunately, the rest of the band are almost packed-up and ready to leave, so HDM also offers to complete the interview by email, if necessary (which is indeed what happens for some of the final questions) but we head straight into the conversation regardless…
So, firstly, I wanted to ask how the band had first come together ?
‘It was back in about 1973, and there was an Upstate University called Newpaltz. It was a State University, but it was known as THE party school. We had some friends from the Bronx who went there, and they introduced us to this guy called ‘Rock’n’Roll Andy’, who was, of course, Andy Shernoff. Around the same time, we knew this guy called Ross, who was playing in a band called Total Crudd… a terrible band, but a fun band ! Well, Ross, Scott Kempner, who was my oldest friend, and Andy, decided to get a new band together. And that was really the embryo of The Dictators.’
Initially, you weren’t directly involved…
‘Well, the whole story about me was that I was the bands’ best friend, but I was never a musician and I had never intended to be one. They just decided they had to give me a job. But it was the worst thing they could’ve given me. I was a drunk and a druggy in the early Seventies and they gave me a job driving their truck and being their road manager ! I just broke things, I lost things, I destroyed things, I did a terrible job ! But then one night they threw me up onstage… this is the legendary story. It was at a place called Popeye’s Spinach Factory, in Brooklyn, and I was the drunk roadie who would come up onstage at the end of the night and sing one song. The problem they had at that point, with Andy being the lead singer, was that the roadie’s song always got the best applause. My guess is that Andy’s a bright guy, a very talented craftsman as a songwriter, but he’s not a very charismatic guy, at least, not enough to make people go crazy. So they’d play a show and people would clap and respect his talent, but when I’d come up at the end, drunk, to sing ‘Wild Thing’, the people went nuts ! I mean, that’s one of those shows where the story has grown over the years, and people are always claiming they were there, but I do know for a fact that Chris Stein from Blondie was there, and Eric Emerson from The Magic Tramps, who was also a part of the Andy Warhol crew, was there. There are a few other people that I think were there, but those are the two that I can guarantee. Anyway, Murray Krugman had decided to sign the band to Epic records, and Sandy Pearlman was going to manage and produce us. They started to realise that, every night, my one song was going down better than everything else so they suggested that I start singing two songs and I got more involved from there. They didn’t want to call me the lead singer at that point, so they just included me on the sleeve of the first album as the ‘Secret Weapon’. But from there on, it just wound up evolving until I was singing practically everything. I guess I was just the right guy for the job. It was no-brainer !’
And, of course, you ended up on the front cover of the first album, so you were already being set-up as the face of the band…
‘Well… if you follow American Football, you’ll have a coach and he’ll draw X’s and O’s on a blackboard, to show how he wants things to play. Andy was like our coach, and he was good enough to get a plan together on how we could win. But then there was the other half of the band, where we had to go out in the world and sell it to people. At the end of the day, I guess I was able to sell it better than Andy. He certainly had his talents, but fronting a band was not one of them. And, I mean, that being said, look at Pete Townsend… one of the greatest rock’n’roll songwriters ever, one of the greatest guitar players, in one of the greatest bands ever, but he was never a frontman. That’s just the way it goes…’
‘Well, the whole story about me was that I was the bands’ best friend, but I was never a musician and I had never intended to be one. They just decided they had to give me a job. But it was the worst thing they could’ve given me. I was a drunk and a druggy in the early Seventies and they gave me a job driving their truck and being their road manager ! I just broke things, I lost things, I destroyed things, I did a terrible job ! But then one night they threw me up onstage… this is the legendary story. It was at a place called Popeye’s Spinach Factory, in Brooklyn, and I was the drunk roadie who would come up onstage at the end of the night and sing one song. The problem they had at that point, with Andy being the lead singer, was that the roadie’s song always got the best applause. My guess is that Andy’s a bright guy, a very talented craftsman as a songwriter, but he’s not a very charismatic guy, at least, not enough to make people go crazy. So they’d play a show and people would clap and respect his talent, but when I’d come up at the end, drunk, to sing ‘Wild Thing’, the people went nuts ! I mean, that’s one of those shows where the story has grown over the years, and people are always claiming they were there, but I do know for a fact that Chris Stein from Blondie was there, and Eric Emerson from The Magic Tramps, who was also a part of the Andy Warhol crew, was there. There are a few other people that I think were there, but those are the two that I can guarantee. Anyway, Murray Krugman had decided to sign the band to Epic records, and Sandy Pearlman was going to manage and produce us. They started to realise that, every night, my one song was going down better than everything else so they suggested that I start singing two songs and I got more involved from there. They didn’t want to call me the lead singer at that point, so they just included me on the sleeve of the first album as the ‘Secret Weapon’. But from there on, it just wound up evolving until I was singing practically everything. I guess I was just the right guy for the job. It was no-brainer !’
And, of course, you ended up on the front cover of the first album, so you were already being set-up as the face of the band…
‘Well… if you follow American Football, you’ll have a coach and he’ll draw X’s and O’s on a blackboard, to show how he wants things to play. Andy was like our coach, and he was good enough to get a plan together on how we could win. But then there was the other half of the band, where we had to go out in the world and sell it to people. At the end of the day, I guess I was able to sell it better than Andy. He certainly had his talents, but fronting a band was not one of them. And, I mean, that being said, look at Pete Townsend… one of the greatest rock’n’roll songwriters ever, one of the greatest guitar players, in one of the greatest bands ever, but he was never a frontman. That’s just the way it goes…’
Who were the bands’ influences while it was
all coming together ?
‘That’s a hard question to answer… I mean, when I was a kid, I bought records by The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, The Kinks, Dave Clark Five, the Beach Boys, The Byrds, and I loved everything that Phil Spector did, all those great producers in the Sixties… I loved all those girl bands like The Shirelles. But I’d say The Who were really a huge, huge influence on The Dictators. I guess if you looked at it like a bunch of veins leading into the heart, The Who were certainly the biggest vein. But we were very eclectic. We had a metal vein, a surf vein, a British Invasion vein, a Pop vein, you know…’
When the first Dictators album was released in the States, it didn’t really meet with much success. In retrospect, do you think it was just out of place at that time ?
‘Yeah, it certainly was. It was an economic disaster. We were working with a bunch of guys who we thought were the coolest guys in the world and we put a record out thinking, well, the world’s going to follow us ! But they didn’t… It was way out of time. This was the same era when bands like Rush were getting big and people just wanted to go to see all that arena rock stuff. But what’s really nice, now, is that forty years later, people look at that same failure and consider it brilliant ! People tell us, that’s such a great record, it changed my life !’
I think part of the problem back then was that there was a certain sense of humour in what you were doing, possibly a very New York sense of humour, and maybe people didn’t really get it at that point…
‘It’s just what we were. I think, a little later on, the Ramones figured out a way to adopt one thing and all look like one thing and do one thing, so they had that kinda symmetry. But we were more confusing, musically and stylistically. We changed from one album to the next, in the way we looked and what we were going for, musically. It would’ve been very confusing to follow, so I can understand why, back at that time, it didn’t happen for us. Also, our managers only really knew how to do one thing, because they’d only really worked with big bands like the Blue Oyster Cult. I mean, at the beginning, even The Ramones tried supporting bigger bands, but once they saw it wasn’t going to work for them, they said, Fuck this, let’s just get in the van and go out and play some rock’n’roll. Now, I’m not so sure if that would have ever worked for us, but maybe that would’ve been the right thing to do ? But, you know, I can’t rewrite history…’
‘That’s a hard question to answer… I mean, when I was a kid, I bought records by The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, The Kinks, Dave Clark Five, the Beach Boys, The Byrds, and I loved everything that Phil Spector did, all those great producers in the Sixties… I loved all those girl bands like The Shirelles. But I’d say The Who were really a huge, huge influence on The Dictators. I guess if you looked at it like a bunch of veins leading into the heart, The Who were certainly the biggest vein. But we were very eclectic. We had a metal vein, a surf vein, a British Invasion vein, a Pop vein, you know…’
When the first Dictators album was released in the States, it didn’t really meet with much success. In retrospect, do you think it was just out of place at that time ?
‘Yeah, it certainly was. It was an economic disaster. We were working with a bunch of guys who we thought were the coolest guys in the world and we put a record out thinking, well, the world’s going to follow us ! But they didn’t… It was way out of time. This was the same era when bands like Rush were getting big and people just wanted to go to see all that arena rock stuff. But what’s really nice, now, is that forty years later, people look at that same failure and consider it brilliant ! People tell us, that’s such a great record, it changed my life !’
I think part of the problem back then was that there was a certain sense of humour in what you were doing, possibly a very New York sense of humour, and maybe people didn’t really get it at that point…
‘It’s just what we were. I think, a little later on, the Ramones figured out a way to adopt one thing and all look like one thing and do one thing, so they had that kinda symmetry. But we were more confusing, musically and stylistically. We changed from one album to the next, in the way we looked and what we were going for, musically. It would’ve been very confusing to follow, so I can understand why, back at that time, it didn’t happen for us. Also, our managers only really knew how to do one thing, because they’d only really worked with big bands like the Blue Oyster Cult. I mean, at the beginning, even The Ramones tried supporting bigger bands, but once they saw it wasn’t going to work for them, they said, Fuck this, let’s just get in the van and go out and play some rock’n’roll. Now, I’m not so sure if that would have ever worked for us, but maybe that would’ve been the right thing to do ? But, you know, I can’t rewrite history…’
When the whole CBGBs scene started to
develop, did you feel like those bands were kindred spirits ?
‘Oh yeah, that was like our home ! Hilly and I were always very close, so it was like a home away from home. We played there 34 times and became an accepted piece of the Punk scene.’
Unfortunately, the Dictators often get missed out when people talk about that scene, or the only thing that gets mentioned is the infamous incident with Wayne / Jayne County…
‘Yeah, and that’s such a boring story… it gets mentioned in so many books but, basically, it was just something that happened when Jayne was drunk or high on speed, I was drunk, and we had a misunderstanding. I mean, Jayne was a Dictators fan, we already knew each other. I said something that, in my mind, I was kidding around, but everyone there took it that I was a homophobe and all that shit… I think it was probably Jayne who called me a name first, so I just yelled back, ‘Fuck you, faggot’, or something stupid like that, and it just got out of hand. But, you know, Jayne is my friend, we’ve been really good friends over the last 15 years… I only just called her a few days ago ! The thing is this… when something bad happens, it gets on page 3, but when people make-up and bury the hatchet, you’re lucky to see it on page 18 ! That’s the story, but it was 30 years ago. It was a horrible incident but I was stupid and drunk, and Jayne was stupid and high. What can I tell you ? I live in New York, I don’t give a fuck how other people want to live. I support people who vote for Gay Marriages and I’m happy to do it. That incident was just some stupid shit and I guess some people decided to make it into a bigger story than it really was.’
The only time The Dictators toured in the UK back in the Seventies was in 1977, when they were asked to support The Stranglers. How did that come about ?
‘I don’t really remember, although someone once told me that Hugh Cornwell was already a fan of ours. I do know that he was really great towards us, really friendly. I remember one occasion when they arranged for us to go and eat at an Indian restaurant, after hours… I did find Jean-Jacques to be a bit anti-American, but I think that was just his schtick, you know ? Like a little bit of a put-on, because once we got to know him a bit, he was really an okay guy. We got on really well with all of them. In fact Hugh even opened-up for us a few years ago, in New York, just playing acoustically. We had a great time with them, it was a great tour and we also got to play on the continent, so it was a good time. I even managed to steal an original poster from the Roundhouse… It was a wonderful first introduction to England.’
You seem to have gone down pretty well on that tour, so it has always seemed strange that you didn’t come back to the UK to build on that…
‘We didn’t have a great game-plan at the time, from management on down to the band. But I like ‘personal responsibility’, soooo… I ain’t gonna blame it on anyone else. We automatically listened to management because we thought they knew better than us. And there probably wasn’t a lot of money for touring back then. It wasn’t until we took our fate in our own hands that we planned out more sensible tours.’
‘Oh yeah, that was like our home ! Hilly and I were always very close, so it was like a home away from home. We played there 34 times and became an accepted piece of the Punk scene.’
Unfortunately, the Dictators often get missed out when people talk about that scene, or the only thing that gets mentioned is the infamous incident with Wayne / Jayne County…
‘Yeah, and that’s such a boring story… it gets mentioned in so many books but, basically, it was just something that happened when Jayne was drunk or high on speed, I was drunk, and we had a misunderstanding. I mean, Jayne was a Dictators fan, we already knew each other. I said something that, in my mind, I was kidding around, but everyone there took it that I was a homophobe and all that shit… I think it was probably Jayne who called me a name first, so I just yelled back, ‘Fuck you, faggot’, or something stupid like that, and it just got out of hand. But, you know, Jayne is my friend, we’ve been really good friends over the last 15 years… I only just called her a few days ago ! The thing is this… when something bad happens, it gets on page 3, but when people make-up and bury the hatchet, you’re lucky to see it on page 18 ! That’s the story, but it was 30 years ago. It was a horrible incident but I was stupid and drunk, and Jayne was stupid and high. What can I tell you ? I live in New York, I don’t give a fuck how other people want to live. I support people who vote for Gay Marriages and I’m happy to do it. That incident was just some stupid shit and I guess some people decided to make it into a bigger story than it really was.’
The only time The Dictators toured in the UK back in the Seventies was in 1977, when they were asked to support The Stranglers. How did that come about ?
‘I don’t really remember, although someone once told me that Hugh Cornwell was already a fan of ours. I do know that he was really great towards us, really friendly. I remember one occasion when they arranged for us to go and eat at an Indian restaurant, after hours… I did find Jean-Jacques to be a bit anti-American, but I think that was just his schtick, you know ? Like a little bit of a put-on, because once we got to know him a bit, he was really an okay guy. We got on really well with all of them. In fact Hugh even opened-up for us a few years ago, in New York, just playing acoustically. We had a great time with them, it was a great tour and we also got to play on the continent, so it was a good time. I even managed to steal an original poster from the Roundhouse… It was a wonderful first introduction to England.’
You seem to have gone down pretty well on that tour, so it has always seemed strange that you didn’t come back to the UK to build on that…
‘We didn’t have a great game-plan at the time, from management on down to the band. But I like ‘personal responsibility’, soooo… I ain’t gonna blame it on anyone else. We automatically listened to management because we thought they knew better than us. And there probably wasn’t a lot of money for touring back then. It wasn’t until we took our fate in our own hands that we planned out more sensible tours.’
The original band eventually split-up after
your third album, ‘Bloodbrothers’ was released in 1978. What were the reasons
for that…
‘Errr… economic failures and my drug problems…’
…But it seems that the release of the ROIR cassette ‘Fuck ‘em If They Can’t Take a Joke’ in 1981 really re-ignited interest in the band again. How did that release come about, and was there any talk about a full-on reunion around then ?
‘We knew the folks running ROIR, which made it real easy to get done. I think the excitement of the band as a live act really came through on that cassette. I mean, any great rock’n’roll band worth their salt must be exciting live, and we were. People seemed to respond to that. We always used to talk about playing a reunion or two, but it wasn’t really until 1996 when we went to Spain and Scandinavia that a real big interest started to develop.’
During the Eighties, you formed the band Wild Kingdom, alongside Andy Shernoff and Daniel Rey. What were you aiming for with that band… did you think of it as a follow-on from The Dictators or as something totally different ?
‘Andy just called me up and said,’Hey, do you wanna start a powerhouse, physical, fun, live band ?’ I said ‘Yes’ straight away. We just wanted to make a record and play some live shows, Period. I guess The Dictators had represented a few different genres, Rock’n’Roll, Heavy Metal, Pop Music, Surf, British Invasion… But with Wild Kingdom, it was the time that speed metal was peaking, so it was like a part of The Dictators, but just that dimension, not the whole band.’
Had you already known Daniel Rey before Wild Kingdom came together ?
‘Yeah, I knew Daniel from when he was a kid and when he played in a band called Shrapnel. Daniel and his childhood pal, Phil Caivano (later in Monster Magnet) used to come from New Jersey to see The Dictators. They loved us ! Daniel and I became real good pals over the years.’
You opened your bar, Manitoba’s, in 1999. Having been there, it’s a great place to visit and a real rock’n’roll hang-out. Was that your aim when you opened it ?
‘Exactly ! It’s a clubhouse, a hang-out… somewhere to have a drink, listen to some rock’n’roll or watch something on the screen (either a sporting event or some sorta rock’n’roll event or movie.) I have also collected an amazing array of photos and posters over the years, of the culture that we all love, so the Bar is like a museum of sorts. All I know is that people seem to love the place !’
‘Errr… economic failures and my drug problems…’
…But it seems that the release of the ROIR cassette ‘Fuck ‘em If They Can’t Take a Joke’ in 1981 really re-ignited interest in the band again. How did that release come about, and was there any talk about a full-on reunion around then ?
‘We knew the folks running ROIR, which made it real easy to get done. I think the excitement of the band as a live act really came through on that cassette. I mean, any great rock’n’roll band worth their salt must be exciting live, and we were. People seemed to respond to that. We always used to talk about playing a reunion or two, but it wasn’t really until 1996 when we went to Spain and Scandinavia that a real big interest started to develop.’
During the Eighties, you formed the band Wild Kingdom, alongside Andy Shernoff and Daniel Rey. What were you aiming for with that band… did you think of it as a follow-on from The Dictators or as something totally different ?
‘Andy just called me up and said,’Hey, do you wanna start a powerhouse, physical, fun, live band ?’ I said ‘Yes’ straight away. We just wanted to make a record and play some live shows, Period. I guess The Dictators had represented a few different genres, Rock’n’Roll, Heavy Metal, Pop Music, Surf, British Invasion… But with Wild Kingdom, it was the time that speed metal was peaking, so it was like a part of The Dictators, but just that dimension, not the whole band.’
Had you already known Daniel Rey before Wild Kingdom came together ?
‘Yeah, I knew Daniel from when he was a kid and when he played in a band called Shrapnel. Daniel and his childhood pal, Phil Caivano (later in Monster Magnet) used to come from New Jersey to see The Dictators. They loved us ! Daniel and I became real good pals over the years.’
You opened your bar, Manitoba’s, in 1999. Having been there, it’s a great place to visit and a real rock’n’roll hang-out. Was that your aim when you opened it ?
‘Exactly ! It’s a clubhouse, a hang-out… somewhere to have a drink, listen to some rock’n’roll or watch something on the screen (either a sporting event or some sorta rock’n’roll event or movie.) I have also collected an amazing array of photos and posters over the years, of the culture that we all love, so the Bar is like a museum of sorts. All I know is that people seem to love the place !’
The Dictators themselves finally got around
to recording their fourth album, ‘DFFD’ in 2001. It certainly proved to be a
big hit with fans, but were you all happy with the results after such a long
break ?
‘I did not enjoy the recording process, so you can read between the lines… I know other members didn’t enjoy it either, but I do like the record when I look back at it now. One of the things is that I was kept off of too much of the record at first. But when people we trusted outside the band, who we went to for opinions, squawked at the ‘lack of Manitoba’ on the records, things were changed. That was when it started to feel like a real Dictators album.’
There’s been a lot of bands in recent years who have obviously been influenced by The Dictators, from Turbonegro in Europe through to Teengenerate in Japan. How does it feel when you hear bands like them ?
‘Too easy a question… It feels great, of course ! Whatever you do in life, if people are influenced by what you do and create, it’s a great feeling and, I would go as far as to say, an honour !’
You were one of the guest vocalists for the reformed MC5 when they played at the Royal Festival Hall in London back in 2005. How did you get involve with those guys ?
‘The boys were in town playing at the Bowery Ballroom and my buddy Wayne Kramer asked me to come up and guest on vocals for two songs. I did that and it went over well. In fact, in its’ review, The Village Voice mentioned that I almost stole the show ! Anyway, a little while later, I got a phone call from Wayne asking me if I wanted to come over to Europe and guest-sing with the MC5 for about three weeks. All I could think was, Get paid $$$$ to sing ‘King Out The Jams’ and travel around Europe ? Yes ! Fuckin’ YES !’
‘I did not enjoy the recording process, so you can read between the lines… I know other members didn’t enjoy it either, but I do like the record when I look back at it now. One of the things is that I was kept off of too much of the record at first. But when people we trusted outside the band, who we went to for opinions, squawked at the ‘lack of Manitoba’ on the records, things were changed. That was when it started to feel like a real Dictators album.’
There’s been a lot of bands in recent years who have obviously been influenced by The Dictators, from Turbonegro in Europe through to Teengenerate in Japan. How does it feel when you hear bands like them ?
‘Too easy a question… It feels great, of course ! Whatever you do in life, if people are influenced by what you do and create, it’s a great feeling and, I would go as far as to say, an honour !’
You were one of the guest vocalists for the reformed MC5 when they played at the Royal Festival Hall in London back in 2005. How did you get involve with those guys ?
‘The boys were in town playing at the Bowery Ballroom and my buddy Wayne Kramer asked me to come up and guest on vocals for two songs. I did that and it went over well. In fact, in its’ review, The Village Voice mentioned that I almost stole the show ! Anyway, a little while later, I got a phone call from Wayne asking me if I wanted to come over to Europe and guest-sing with the MC5 for about three weeks. All I could think was, Get paid $$$$ to sing ‘King Out The Jams’ and travel around Europe ? Yes ! Fuckin’ YES !’
I have to ask, why has it taken The Dictators
so long to play in England
again, even though you have played in Europe a
few times in recent years ?
‘When I came over and played with the MC5, I really enjoyed it so I started wanting to bring The Dictators back over here again. Now, I’m not trying to talk bad here, but we’d been coming over to play in Spain pretty much every year and we’d been getting good money to do that. We were supposed to be a band who took votes on stuff, but Andy had become something of a wine connoisseur, and so when we came over to play in Spain, he’d want to spend an extra week visiting vineyards. And I guess he became a bit selfish that way… he didn’t want to do The Dictators unless he knew exactly how much money he was going to make, and how he could tie it in with other things that he wanted to do. I think he started to believe that it was all about him. But Scott, me, Ross and Andy all own The Dictators, as a corporation. The rest of us had always been happy to back-off a bit because he wrote the songs… I mean, we didn’t play at all for, like, 15 years, and every time people asked us, why won’t you play, we had to tell them it’s because Andy doesn’t want to. But eventually, my wife came to me one day and said, Richard, you’re 60 years old… Something could happen to you, or something could happen to somebody else in the band. People want to see the band now, so go and fucking do it while you still can. The worst thing would be to end up living a life of regret, that you never did this thing while you could. And you know what ? We all got excited about it, we all wanted to do it, so we found promoters who wanted to work with us and we heard from all these people who wanted to see us. We went to Andy and asked him if he wanted to do it and, without any second thoughts, he just said No. So that’s why we’re now touring again as Dictators NYC, and he’s still back at home, playing acoustic guitar and telling stories. He’s happy and doing what he wants, and we’re out on the road, doing what we want. So it’s all ended up as a very beautiful world, hahaha !’
Is that why the band is now billed as ‘Dictators NYC’, to differentiate between this line-up and the original band featuring Andy Shernoff…
‘Yeah, it’s to acknowledge that Scott and Andy are not with us. Scott would actually still be with us, but he’s still really busy with The Del Lords. He’s even come to see us and loved the show ! The way we see it, we still have our lead guitarist, Ross the Boss, me on lead vocals and JP, our longest-serving drummer by far, so we felt that gave us the right to use The Dictators name. We were an integral part of the fibre and the development of the songs, the style and the attitude, and maybe most importantly, the live show.’
‘When I came over and played with the MC5, I really enjoyed it so I started wanting to bring The Dictators back over here again. Now, I’m not trying to talk bad here, but we’d been coming over to play in Spain pretty much every year and we’d been getting good money to do that. We were supposed to be a band who took votes on stuff, but Andy had become something of a wine connoisseur, and so when we came over to play in Spain, he’d want to spend an extra week visiting vineyards. And I guess he became a bit selfish that way… he didn’t want to do The Dictators unless he knew exactly how much money he was going to make, and how he could tie it in with other things that he wanted to do. I think he started to believe that it was all about him. But Scott, me, Ross and Andy all own The Dictators, as a corporation. The rest of us had always been happy to back-off a bit because he wrote the songs… I mean, we didn’t play at all for, like, 15 years, and every time people asked us, why won’t you play, we had to tell them it’s because Andy doesn’t want to. But eventually, my wife came to me one day and said, Richard, you’re 60 years old… Something could happen to you, or something could happen to somebody else in the band. People want to see the band now, so go and fucking do it while you still can. The worst thing would be to end up living a life of regret, that you never did this thing while you could. And you know what ? We all got excited about it, we all wanted to do it, so we found promoters who wanted to work with us and we heard from all these people who wanted to see us. We went to Andy and asked him if he wanted to do it and, without any second thoughts, he just said No. So that’s why we’re now touring again as Dictators NYC, and he’s still back at home, playing acoustic guitar and telling stories. He’s happy and doing what he wants, and we’re out on the road, doing what we want. So it’s all ended up as a very beautiful world, hahaha !’
Is that why the band is now billed as ‘Dictators NYC’, to differentiate between this line-up and the original band featuring Andy Shernoff…
‘Yeah, it’s to acknowledge that Scott and Andy are not with us. Scott would actually still be with us, but he’s still really busy with The Del Lords. He’s even come to see us and loved the show ! The way we see it, we still have our lead guitarist, Ross the Boss, me on lead vocals and JP, our longest-serving drummer by far, so we felt that gave us the right to use The Dictators name. We were an integral part of the fibre and the development of the songs, the style and the attitude, and maybe most importantly, the live show.’
Do you have any plans to write and record new
material with the current line-up ?
‘Yeah, I’m working on two or three songs right now. It’s coming along slowly as I’m still getting my feet under me as a songwriter. I don’t know what we’ll put out first, maybe a single or an EP. My main criteria is that I can ‘sell’ the new songs to our audience.’
Next year, 2015, is going to be the 40th anniversary of the first Dictators album… do you have anything special planned to celebrate ?
‘Great question ! Now that you’ve brought it up, I’ll have to bring it up to the rest of the band… We gotta do something special ! I mean, 40 years !!!’
And so, there you have something to watch out for. By all accounts, the band will be back in Europe again towards the middle of 2015 and, after the reception they got in London and, by all accounts, Rebellion, I’m pretty sure they’ll be back in the UK as well. Older and Wiser but still Faster and Louder, the Dictators are still a rock’n’roll band to be reckoned-with. Make sure you don’t miss them.
Final thanks go out to Handsome Dick Manitoba and their tour manager, Sandra, whose help with this interview has been beyond the call of duty – very much appreciated !
‘Yeah, I’m working on two or three songs right now. It’s coming along slowly as I’m still getting my feet under me as a songwriter. I don’t know what we’ll put out first, maybe a single or an EP. My main criteria is that I can ‘sell’ the new songs to our audience.’
Next year, 2015, is going to be the 40th anniversary of the first Dictators album… do you have anything special planned to celebrate ?
‘Great question ! Now that you’ve brought it up, I’ll have to bring it up to the rest of the band… We gotta do something special ! I mean, 40 years !!!’
And so, there you have something to watch out for. By all accounts, the band will be back in Europe again towards the middle of 2015 and, after the reception they got in London and, by all accounts, Rebellion, I’m pretty sure they’ll be back in the UK as well. Older and Wiser but still Faster and Louder, the Dictators are still a rock’n’roll band to be reckoned-with. Make sure you don’t miss them.
Final thanks go out to Handsome Dick Manitoba and their tour manager, Sandra, whose help with this interview has been beyond the call of duty – very much appreciated !
