Of all the bands associated with the original skinhead/Oi scene in the UK, it was The Business that really gave the lie to the oft-repeated accusation that all of the bands were right-wing racists. You didn’t even have to investigate far to find the evidence. One of their early tours was named ‘Oi Against Racism, Against Political Extremism, But Still Against The System’, they became friends with members of Crass (regularly covering their ‘Do They Owe Us a Living’) and in fact actually received threats and had gigs disrupted by neo-nazis who objected to their more socialist leanings. But both the music and mainstream press weren’t going to let the truth get in the way of a good headline. The Daily Mail (ironically, a newspaper that had openly supported Oswald Mosley’s fascist party during the 1930’s) launched a sensationalist (and inaccurate) attack on the scene which set the tone for the way the bands would later be treated by the majority of journalists.
But while The Business did their best to distance themselves from such unsavoury elements, at the same time they were also producing some of the best and most memorable punk rock of the era. Combining a down-to-earth, genuinely working class approach with a raw punk rock sensibility and hints of the better hard rock bands of the early Seventies, The Business wrote songs that were catchy and able to deal with a variety of subjects, from the serious to the comical. They appealed to an inclusive audience, but despite their popularity their early years were dogged by bad-luck and they split and reformed on several occasions. At the end of the Eighties, it looked as if they were gone for good, not even playing live for four or five years. But in 1993, a series of events happened that brought them back and saw them become more popular than ever. Firstly, they were asked to reform to play at a tribute concert for the recently deceased Bobby Moore (singer Micky Fitz was a life-long West Ham fan.) They were surprised how well their set went down and, as reports of the gig circulated, they were approached by a Booking Agency in Germany to see if they’d be interested in playing a European tour. This went ahead successfully and it was also around this time that they discovered that many of the American Hardcore bands, like Agnostic Front, Slapshot, Negative Approach and Madball were already fans of their music and openly credited them as a major influence. This led to tours in America where they discovered an audience that they’d never known were waiting for them.
But while The Business did their best to distance themselves from such unsavoury elements, at the same time they were also producing some of the best and most memorable punk rock of the era. Combining a down-to-earth, genuinely working class approach with a raw punk rock sensibility and hints of the better hard rock bands of the early Seventies, The Business wrote songs that were catchy and able to deal with a variety of subjects, from the serious to the comical. They appealed to an inclusive audience, but despite their popularity their early years were dogged by bad-luck and they split and reformed on several occasions. At the end of the Eighties, it looked as if they were gone for good, not even playing live for four or five years. But in 1993, a series of events happened that brought them back and saw them become more popular than ever. Firstly, they were asked to reform to play at a tribute concert for the recently deceased Bobby Moore (singer Micky Fitz was a life-long West Ham fan.) They were surprised how well their set went down and, as reports of the gig circulated, they were approached by a Booking Agency in Germany to see if they’d be interested in playing a European tour. This went ahead successfully and it was also around this time that they discovered that many of the American Hardcore bands, like Agnostic Front, Slapshot, Negative Approach and Madball were already fans of their music and openly credited them as a major influence. This led to tours in America where they discovered an audience that they’d never known were waiting for them.
Signing a deal with Taang records in the States, they released ‘The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing but The Truth’, an album that would become one of their most successful and prove to be very influential towards many of the new up-and-coming bands like Dropkick Murphys and The Casualties. Further records (including a collaboration with Dropkick Murphys) continued to confirm their reputation, but after a period of seven or eight years of almost continuous touring and recording, guitarist Steve Whale decided that he needed a break and left the band. Micky Fitz subsequently put together a new line-up which continued to tour in Europe and America, as well further afield in places like South America, Japan and Australia. Their popularity was still evident but in 2015 fate was to cheat them one more time when Micky was diagnosed with cancer. Sadly, after a long battle, he passed away at the end of 2016.
At the time, there was talk about a special concert being set-up to pay tribute to Micky Fitz but oddly nothing more was heard until 2019, when Steve Whale announced that a band consisting of himself, drummer Micky Fairburn and original guitarist Steve Kent would be coming together with a selection of guest vocalists to play two gigs in memory of their former singer. Both sets, in Berlin and Blackpool, were well-received by fans and, unsurprisingly, led to them being approached to play further shows around the world. Their gig at the 100 Club in December 2019 was a ram-packed occasion with the great atmosphere that it deserved. It was also the first time in quite a while that I got to speak with Steve Whale. I suggested that it might be a good time to do a new interview, to bring everything up to date, and he readily agreed. Due to other commitments, it took a while to arrange everything, but eventually I met up with Steve at the only pub left in Erith and the conversation went ahead.
At the time, there was talk about a special concert being set-up to pay tribute to Micky Fitz but oddly nothing more was heard until 2019, when Steve Whale announced that a band consisting of himself, drummer Micky Fairburn and original guitarist Steve Kent would be coming together with a selection of guest vocalists to play two gigs in memory of their former singer. Both sets, in Berlin and Blackpool, were well-received by fans and, unsurprisingly, led to them being approached to play further shows around the world. Their gig at the 100 Club in December 2019 was a ram-packed occasion with the great atmosphere that it deserved. It was also the first time in quite a while that I got to speak with Steve Whale. I suggested that it might be a good time to do a new interview, to bring everything up to date, and he readily agreed. Due to other commitments, it took a while to arrange everything, but eventually I met up with Steve at the only pub left in Erith and the conversation went ahead.
Firstly, I wanted to ask about the band that Steve and Mark Brennan had been in before joining The Business. Known as The Blackout, they apparently built a good local following in South London, but sadly didn’t get a chance to release any records...
‘I’ve never really covered this in any interviews before, but it was a pretty good band. I actually met Mark at an early U2 concert at the Marquee, because he was a roadie for them at the time. I can’t remember who introduced us, but basically they told Mark that I played guitar and told me that he was looking for a guitarist. So we exchanged phone numbers and he asked if I’d come along to a rehearsal on the following Sunday. In between times, I went up to the Marquee again on the Friday to see Martian Dance and unfortunately the crew I was with got into a big fight with a bunch of Martian Dance fans from Harrow. I think one of the Harrow lot started picking on one of our mates because he had a Mohawk but was wearing glasses! We didn’t like that and one thing quickly led to another and everything went horribly wrong. Anyway, by the time I went along to the rehearsal on Sunday, I turned up with a black eye and cuts on my knuckles… The singer, Dave, was a drama student at the time and he must have thought, who the fuck have they brought down here? I think I played ‘Streets of London’ with them and maybe a couple of other songs… as well as I could with my hands in that state! But they were happy and decided that I was in. Long-story-short, The Blackout had some really good songs and I was lucky to be in the group because it helped me learn how to write songs and I really liked the other band members. We started to get a pretty good following in our area, because the songs were good and it wasn’t full-on punk. It was probably a bit more song-orientated and after we started to get a bit of a following and were even invited to go into Trident Studios in Soho, which was where people like The Beatles, Queen and David Bowie had recorded. That was where I first started to learn about production and how to put songs together, just by watching the guys who worked there. That was something that really interested me and it’s stayed with me ever since.’
Unfortunately, none of those recordings have ever been released ?
‘No, although we’ve still got them. I’ve spoken to Mark a few times about it, because I think those songs still ought top be released. Like I said, they were really good songs and because of where and when they were recorded, they’ve got that real retro sound which is now back in fashion. The interesting thing would be that you’d hear the original versions of things that would eventually be used on the first Business album… Songs like ‘Blind Justice’ and a couple of others. I think Mark actually wrote ‘H-Bomb’ when he was still only fifteen!’
‘I’ve never really covered this in any interviews before, but it was a pretty good band. I actually met Mark at an early U2 concert at the Marquee, because he was a roadie for them at the time. I can’t remember who introduced us, but basically they told Mark that I played guitar and told me that he was looking for a guitarist. So we exchanged phone numbers and he asked if I’d come along to a rehearsal on the following Sunday. In between times, I went up to the Marquee again on the Friday to see Martian Dance and unfortunately the crew I was with got into a big fight with a bunch of Martian Dance fans from Harrow. I think one of the Harrow lot started picking on one of our mates because he had a Mohawk but was wearing glasses! We didn’t like that and one thing quickly led to another and everything went horribly wrong. Anyway, by the time I went along to the rehearsal on Sunday, I turned up with a black eye and cuts on my knuckles… The singer, Dave, was a drama student at the time and he must have thought, who the fuck have they brought down here? I think I played ‘Streets of London’ with them and maybe a couple of other songs… as well as I could with my hands in that state! But they were happy and decided that I was in. Long-story-short, The Blackout had some really good songs and I was lucky to be in the group because it helped me learn how to write songs and I really liked the other band members. We started to get a pretty good following in our area, because the songs were good and it wasn’t full-on punk. It was probably a bit more song-orientated and after we started to get a bit of a following and were even invited to go into Trident Studios in Soho, which was where people like The Beatles, Queen and David Bowie had recorded. That was where I first started to learn about production and how to put songs together, just by watching the guys who worked there. That was something that really interested me and it’s stayed with me ever since.’
Unfortunately, none of those recordings have ever been released ?
‘No, although we’ve still got them. I’ve spoken to Mark a few times about it, because I think those songs still ought top be released. Like I said, they were really good songs and because of where and when they were recorded, they’ve got that real retro sound which is now back in fashion. The interesting thing would be that you’d hear the original versions of things that would eventually be used on the first Business album… Songs like ‘Blind Justice’ and a couple of others. I think Mark actually wrote ‘H-Bomb’ when he was still only fifteen!’
Since things seemed to be going well for The Blackout, how did you and Mark end-up joining The Business ?
‘Well, as The Blackout had quite a big local following, Micky Fitz and Lol Pryor, the manager, got to hear about us. They were putting a new line-up of The Business together and had heard good things, so they came along to see us at a pub called The Ship in Plumstead. We didn’t already know them, although I had seen The Business when they played at The Tramshed in Woolwich, supporting someone like Case, I think. They’d stuck in my mind because I remember that their bass player walked offstage during the last song to go and get a beer… I thought that was great! Anyway, we met Micky that night in Plumstead and we hit-it-off immediately. We just got on really well from the beginning and they asked if me and Mark would be interested in joining The Business. To us, it seemed like an obvious progression.’
You joined The Business shortly after they’d been caught-up in the riot at the Hamborough Tavern in Southall. Although The Business were certainly not involved with right-wing politics, they did get some pretty bad press just for having been there. Were you wary about that at all?
‘Well, it never really crossed my mind at the time. When I met Micky and Lol, I soon realised that they weren’t happy with what had happened and didn’t support any of that stuff, so there were no problems for me. The record label were also keen to promote the band as this ‘skunk’ thing, you know, skinheads and punks. Micky was a skinhead and I was a punk, so they thought we could cross both markets. To me, it was a bit weird because the ‘Oi’ thing still wasn’t that big at the time and most people just saw what we were doing as Punk, anyway. Certainly, most of the people who came to see us were punks… We weren’t even thinking about the ‘skunk’ thing when we started playing together. I think the original line-up of The Business were really more like mates who’d go drinking in the pub and then meet up to play some music, so I don’t think the band started getting a bit more serious about what they were doing until me, Mark and Kev Boyce joined-up. Secret Records also started pushing us a bit more… they’d come and tell us that they wanted us to record an album in three weeks’ time, so me and Mark would spend all our time at his Mum’s house, trying to write songs for it! A lot of the things we were doing back then happened very quickly so we didn’t even have any time to think about what we were doing.’
‘Well, as The Blackout had quite a big local following, Micky Fitz and Lol Pryor, the manager, got to hear about us. They were putting a new line-up of The Business together and had heard good things, so they came along to see us at a pub called The Ship in Plumstead. We didn’t already know them, although I had seen The Business when they played at The Tramshed in Woolwich, supporting someone like Case, I think. They’d stuck in my mind because I remember that their bass player walked offstage during the last song to go and get a beer… I thought that was great! Anyway, we met Micky that night in Plumstead and we hit-it-off immediately. We just got on really well from the beginning and they asked if me and Mark would be interested in joining The Business. To us, it seemed like an obvious progression.’
You joined The Business shortly after they’d been caught-up in the riot at the Hamborough Tavern in Southall. Although The Business were certainly not involved with right-wing politics, they did get some pretty bad press just for having been there. Were you wary about that at all?
‘Well, it never really crossed my mind at the time. When I met Micky and Lol, I soon realised that they weren’t happy with what had happened and didn’t support any of that stuff, so there were no problems for me. The record label were also keen to promote the band as this ‘skunk’ thing, you know, skinheads and punks. Micky was a skinhead and I was a punk, so they thought we could cross both markets. To me, it was a bit weird because the ‘Oi’ thing still wasn’t that big at the time and most people just saw what we were doing as Punk, anyway. Certainly, most of the people who came to see us were punks… We weren’t even thinking about the ‘skunk’ thing when we started playing together. I think the original line-up of The Business were really more like mates who’d go drinking in the pub and then meet up to play some music, so I don’t think the band started getting a bit more serious about what they were doing until me, Mark and Kev Boyce joined-up. Secret Records also started pushing us a bit more… they’d come and tell us that they wanted us to record an album in three weeks’ time, so me and Mark would spend all our time at his Mum’s house, trying to write songs for it! A lot of the things we were doing back then happened very quickly so we didn’t even have any time to think about what we were doing.’
You had quite a few problems while you were recording the first album…
‘When we first went into the studio, The Exploited had just finished recording their first album. I walked in and found all their guitar equipment was still set up, along with the studio microphones. They had all this Marshall equipment, so I was in heaven. I put my Gibson Les Paul through their amps and the sound was amazing, so we started to record some of the tracks. It was sounding great, but when we came back the next morning, all of their equipment was gone. Big John had come down and taken it all away because he’d heard that we were using it! So that was the end of that incredible guitar sound for us and other things also started to go terribly wrong. The first set of recordings were stolen, or went missing, from the studio so we had to re-do the whole thing. And when that was finished, Secret decided to remix it without our knowledge. We’d finished the recordings and were really happy with how it sounded, but by the time the record was pressed, it was all fucked-up. The guitars were all turned down in the mix and it just sounded bizarre, compared to what we had recorded. But that was a typical example of what was going on at the time. It was absolute chaos.’
Strangely enough, the band lost their manager, Lol Pryor, just before the album was released and you also fell-out with Gary Bushell, who had been a big supporter of the band up until then…
‘We’d recorded the album at Matrix studios but when the tapes went missing, we decided to re-record it at a studio called The Farm, with Micky Geggus as the producer. Lol didn’t want us to do that and objected to it when we went ahead with it. He was mates with Gary, so they both ended up against the re-recording. We went ahead with it anyway and I still think it was a smart move, even though we had to raise the money ourselves to pay for it. Thank God that we did, because it turned out to be a classic album, even though the label messed-up the mix. But it did cause some disagreements at the time. Funnily enough, The Farm studios were owned by Fleetwood Mac and it turned out that, during the two weeks we were there, Rick Wakeman was recording in one of the other studios. It quickly descended into a not very good situation, because Rick Wakeman was insisting that his drummer recorded his parts over night, so that he could then come in and record his keyboards during the day. We’d be trying to get some sleep in this place but at the same time that these frigging drums were being recorded. To get their own back, somebody – and I don’t know who – decided to sneak-in and take a shit on top of Wakemans’ keyboards! The next morning, all Hell broke lose and Rick Wakeman was trying to get us kicked out of the studio and banned from ever working there again. But fortunately, the management were laughing so much about what had happened that they just gave us a gentle telling-off and let us stay. They couldn’t keep a straight face, but they had to at least tell us off even though I think they agreed that Rick Wakeman should have shown a bit of respect and let us get some sleep so we could record during the day.’
‘When we first went into the studio, The Exploited had just finished recording their first album. I walked in and found all their guitar equipment was still set up, along with the studio microphones. They had all this Marshall equipment, so I was in heaven. I put my Gibson Les Paul through their amps and the sound was amazing, so we started to record some of the tracks. It was sounding great, but when we came back the next morning, all of their equipment was gone. Big John had come down and taken it all away because he’d heard that we were using it! So that was the end of that incredible guitar sound for us and other things also started to go terribly wrong. The first set of recordings were stolen, or went missing, from the studio so we had to re-do the whole thing. And when that was finished, Secret decided to remix it without our knowledge. We’d finished the recordings and were really happy with how it sounded, but by the time the record was pressed, it was all fucked-up. The guitars were all turned down in the mix and it just sounded bizarre, compared to what we had recorded. But that was a typical example of what was going on at the time. It was absolute chaos.’
Strangely enough, the band lost their manager, Lol Pryor, just before the album was released and you also fell-out with Gary Bushell, who had been a big supporter of the band up until then…
‘We’d recorded the album at Matrix studios but when the tapes went missing, we decided to re-record it at a studio called The Farm, with Micky Geggus as the producer. Lol didn’t want us to do that and objected to it when we went ahead with it. He was mates with Gary, so they both ended up against the re-recording. We went ahead with it anyway and I still think it was a smart move, even though we had to raise the money ourselves to pay for it. Thank God that we did, because it turned out to be a classic album, even though the label messed-up the mix. But it did cause some disagreements at the time. Funnily enough, The Farm studios were owned by Fleetwood Mac and it turned out that, during the two weeks we were there, Rick Wakeman was recording in one of the other studios. It quickly descended into a not very good situation, because Rick Wakeman was insisting that his drummer recorded his parts over night, so that he could then come in and record his keyboards during the day. We’d be trying to get some sleep in this place but at the same time that these frigging drums were being recorded. To get their own back, somebody – and I don’t know who – decided to sneak-in and take a shit on top of Wakemans’ keyboards! The next morning, all Hell broke lose and Rick Wakeman was trying to get us kicked out of the studio and banned from ever working there again. But fortunately, the management were laughing so much about what had happened that they just gave us a gentle telling-off and let us stay. They couldn’t keep a straight face, but they had to at least tell us off even though I think they agreed that Rick Wakeman should have shown a bit of respect and let us get some sleep so we could record during the day.’
Apart from Gary Bushell, the album got a good response and sold pretty-well, but soon after its’ release, the band broke-up…
‘Well, Secret records was going bust, so the album didn’t get much promotion and we were getting no support from them. The bloke who was supposed to be working with us was also working with Twisted Sister and getting ready to launch their first record, so he wasn’t really doing anything for us. It all became a bit strange and all of a sudden we were told that there was no more money available for anything. With everything that had happened, we were all getting a bit fed-up and frustrated…’
While The Business were inactive, you and Micky continued to play together in a band called ‘Chapter’…
‘Yeah, it’s always been like that. If The Business weren’t doing anything, me and Micky would get together to do something else. I don’t think we ever played live as ‘Chapter’, but we wrote a bunch of songs and recorded a few… I wrote one called ‘Foreign Girl’, which was a really great track. There are some tapes of it somewhere, but if I’m being totally honest, I don’t think it was something we were taking too seriously. It was more of a laugh for us and we weren’t really trying to get a new thing going.’
During this time, Lol Pryor had set-up his own record label, Syndicate, and released the ‘Official Bootleg’ album. He then persuaded The Business to get back together to record the ‘Loud Proud and Punk’ album. Audience sounds were overdubbed and it was released as a ‘real’ live album, but it did at least capture the energy of the bands live performances…
‘Yeah, we did that at Alaska studio in Waterloo. We were looking at it as a bit of a laugh, so as long as it sounded good we were happy with it. When we arrived at the studio we decided to go straight to the pub across the road for a drink, before we’d even started. That’s the way it always was with The Business… recording was a secondary thing. Even when we were rehearsing, we’d spend most of the time in the nearest pub and we’d be lucky if we got to run through all of the songs once… four hours in the pub and 45 minutes running through the set! It probably sounds funny now, but that was literally the attitude we had back then. Have some fun first and then worry about the other stuff later on.’
‘Well, Secret records was going bust, so the album didn’t get much promotion and we were getting no support from them. The bloke who was supposed to be working with us was also working with Twisted Sister and getting ready to launch their first record, so he wasn’t really doing anything for us. It all became a bit strange and all of a sudden we were told that there was no more money available for anything. With everything that had happened, we were all getting a bit fed-up and frustrated…’
While The Business were inactive, you and Micky continued to play together in a band called ‘Chapter’…
‘Yeah, it’s always been like that. If The Business weren’t doing anything, me and Micky would get together to do something else. I don’t think we ever played live as ‘Chapter’, but we wrote a bunch of songs and recorded a few… I wrote one called ‘Foreign Girl’, which was a really great track. There are some tapes of it somewhere, but if I’m being totally honest, I don’t think it was something we were taking too seriously. It was more of a laugh for us and we weren’t really trying to get a new thing going.’
During this time, Lol Pryor had set-up his own record label, Syndicate, and released the ‘Official Bootleg’ album. He then persuaded The Business to get back together to record the ‘Loud Proud and Punk’ album. Audience sounds were overdubbed and it was released as a ‘real’ live album, but it did at least capture the energy of the bands live performances…
‘Yeah, we did that at Alaska studio in Waterloo. We were looking at it as a bit of a laugh, so as long as it sounded good we were happy with it. When we arrived at the studio we decided to go straight to the pub across the road for a drink, before we’d even started. That’s the way it always was with The Business… recording was a secondary thing. Even when we were rehearsing, we’d spend most of the time in the nearest pub and we’d be lucky if we got to run through all of the songs once… four hours in the pub and 45 minutes running through the set! It probably sounds funny now, but that was literally the attitude we had back then. Have some fun first and then worry about the other stuff later on.’
Following the release of ‘Loud, Proud and Punk’, The Business decided to start playing live again, albeit with a new drummer, Micky Fairburn. For many fans, this line-up (Micky Fitz, Steve, Mark and Micky Fairburn) was probably the best that the band ever had…
‘Yeah. Mick had already been playing with another band (Skinflix) and Mark had been to see them. We asked if he’d like to audition with us and as soon as he started playing, we knew he was fucking great. A lot of people don’t realise what a great drummer he is and when I started putting together these recent gigs, there really was no-one else that I’d have even considered. And more importantly, he’s a really good bloke and a perfect person to have in a band. Micky Drummer was always such a big part of The Business so I’d probably have to agree that this was the classic line-up. Steve Kent was still involved, at least when we were recording, so that was another thing in our favour. I always thought that his guitar-playing was one of the things that got The Business noticed in the first place and I’d even go as far as to say that I wouldn’t be doing these gigs now if those two weren’t involved. With the three of us together we can still create The Business sound, but if it was anyone else I don’t think that would happen. It’s Steve’s lead guitar, my rhythm guitar, or whatever it is that I do, and Micky’s drums. That’s the real sound of the band and that’s the feeling that people have been getting when they see us play. I mean, I always loved The Damned and I used to go and see them with the ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’ line-up. They were just so good, but then five years down the line, there were other people in the band and it just wasn’t the same. The new songs might’ve been alright, but the way they were playing just wasn’t right for me. It’s the chemistry you get in certain line-ups… Like, you could never have The Clash without Mick Jones. What sort of idiot came up with that idea? It certainly hasn’t been easy playing gigs without Micky Fitz, but with me, Steve Kent and Micky Drummer as the core of it, and guest singers to cover the vocals, the feedback has been very positive and people are able to get it.’
The first new recordings by this line-up was the ‘Get Out Of My House’ EP…
‘Yeah… it was actually recorded by Gary Glitter’s son, Paul Gadd, and Paul Fox from The Ruts happened to be there and helped us to set-up the sound. I was starting to get obsessed about the snare sound and he came up with this idea that we’d put a Marshall cabinet out in the corridor and then put microphones all down the hall to pick up the sound. And it worked, the snare sound was great, but then we had all the bands in the other rooms going mental because we had this big noise going on right next to them! Anyway, when I was ready to set-up my guitar, he let me use all of his Marshall gear and tweaked it so that I had a great guitar sound. Having him there to help us out was just wonderful for me, because I’d always loved The Ruts and thought he was an incredibly under-rated guitar player. He really was an absolute gentleman and I can’t say enough good things about him. He was the complete opposite of Big John from the Exploited, who took all of his equipment out of the studio rather than let us use it to get a good sound. Paul Fox was just a really nice bloke and was completely happy to help-out another guitarist.’
‘Yeah. Mick had already been playing with another band (Skinflix) and Mark had been to see them. We asked if he’d like to audition with us and as soon as he started playing, we knew he was fucking great. A lot of people don’t realise what a great drummer he is and when I started putting together these recent gigs, there really was no-one else that I’d have even considered. And more importantly, he’s a really good bloke and a perfect person to have in a band. Micky Drummer was always such a big part of The Business so I’d probably have to agree that this was the classic line-up. Steve Kent was still involved, at least when we were recording, so that was another thing in our favour. I always thought that his guitar-playing was one of the things that got The Business noticed in the first place and I’d even go as far as to say that I wouldn’t be doing these gigs now if those two weren’t involved. With the three of us together we can still create The Business sound, but if it was anyone else I don’t think that would happen. It’s Steve’s lead guitar, my rhythm guitar, or whatever it is that I do, and Micky’s drums. That’s the real sound of the band and that’s the feeling that people have been getting when they see us play. I mean, I always loved The Damned and I used to go and see them with the ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’ line-up. They were just so good, but then five years down the line, there were other people in the band and it just wasn’t the same. The new songs might’ve been alright, but the way they were playing just wasn’t right for me. It’s the chemistry you get in certain line-ups… Like, you could never have The Clash without Mick Jones. What sort of idiot came up with that idea? It certainly hasn’t been easy playing gigs without Micky Fitz, but with me, Steve Kent and Micky Drummer as the core of it, and guest singers to cover the vocals, the feedback has been very positive and people are able to get it.’
The first new recordings by this line-up was the ‘Get Out Of My House’ EP…
‘Yeah… it was actually recorded by Gary Glitter’s son, Paul Gadd, and Paul Fox from The Ruts happened to be there and helped us to set-up the sound. I was starting to get obsessed about the snare sound and he came up with this idea that we’d put a Marshall cabinet out in the corridor and then put microphones all down the hall to pick up the sound. And it worked, the snare sound was great, but then we had all the bands in the other rooms going mental because we had this big noise going on right next to them! Anyway, when I was ready to set-up my guitar, he let me use all of his Marshall gear and tweaked it so that I had a great guitar sound. Having him there to help us out was just wonderful for me, because I’d always loved The Ruts and thought he was an incredibly under-rated guitar player. He really was an absolute gentleman and I can’t say enough good things about him. He was the complete opposite of Big John from the Exploited, who took all of his equipment out of the studio rather than let us use it to get a good sound. Paul Fox was just a really nice bloke and was completely happy to help-out another guitarist.’
The next EP featured a new version of ‘Drinking and Driving’ which sounded so much better than the version on ‘Suburban Rebels’, but it soon started to get criticism for being irresponsible, even though it was obviously not meant to be taken seriously…
‘I actually wrote that in the studio, sitting on the floor with my guitar. Kev Boyce was messing about with his drums at the same time, so it was hardly an easy situation for me to write a song. Then, someone had the idea to invite a load of our mates to come along and sing on the track. I mean, a load of blokes coming down from the pub and crowding into a studio… what could possibly go wrong ? Somehow, it all worked out and it’s a good song… But then, all these reporters starting talking about it and creating a controversy. I think Lol Pryor may have had something to do with that, but at the same time he did come up with the line, ‘must avoid that rightful pull’, which was a bit of a get-out clause in case we got into serious trouble about the song. I mean, it even got mentioned in Parliament! But we were just having a bit of fun… we even designed a poster for it, which was a picture of Micky and me in the back of a car, holding pints of beer. The poster said ‘Don’t Drink and Drive – You might spill it!’ But the record label got scared and wouldn’t let them be printed…’
The ‘Saturdays Heroes’ album was released soon after this and also marked the first time the band went over to play gigs in Europe…
‘Yeah, and it went really well, although as I was saying, we were still treating it all as fun. We just looked at it like, let’s play these gigs and have a lot of fun. I don’t think we even realised at the time how many people really liked what we were doing. We just wanted to enjoy playing, have some drinks and not lose any money.’
Although you played further gigs in Europe and released the ‘Welcome to the Real World’ album over the next couple of years, the band went on hold again in 1989…
‘Yeah, that was the beginning of the wilderness years for us. Me and Micky were living in the same area so we’d still meet up and drink together at our local pub, but I think we didn’t realise that people were still interested in The Business. The label ‘Oi’ had become a bad-word and there were virtually no promoters willing to book a band associated with it. There were very few record labels or distributors that would work with Oi bands and the general consensus was that it was all over. It meant that, even if we had wanted to do something, we wouldn’t have been able to find anyone to release our records or book any gigs, so it seemed that we wouldn’t be able to play. It was a horrible situation for us to be in and it wasn’t until 1993, when Bobby Moore died, that we were asked to play at a tribute concert for him at the Stick of Rock pub in Bethnal Green. We agreed to do it and we only planned to play five numbers, so we were surprised how well it went down. People who saw us were telling their mates how much they’d enjoyed seeing us and eventually, the rumours reached Marc at the MAD booking agency in Germany. He became interested in booking a European tour for us and got in touch.
‘I actually wrote that in the studio, sitting on the floor with my guitar. Kev Boyce was messing about with his drums at the same time, so it was hardly an easy situation for me to write a song. Then, someone had the idea to invite a load of our mates to come along and sing on the track. I mean, a load of blokes coming down from the pub and crowding into a studio… what could possibly go wrong ? Somehow, it all worked out and it’s a good song… But then, all these reporters starting talking about it and creating a controversy. I think Lol Pryor may have had something to do with that, but at the same time he did come up with the line, ‘must avoid that rightful pull’, which was a bit of a get-out clause in case we got into serious trouble about the song. I mean, it even got mentioned in Parliament! But we were just having a bit of fun… we even designed a poster for it, which was a picture of Micky and me in the back of a car, holding pints of beer. The poster said ‘Don’t Drink and Drive – You might spill it!’ But the record label got scared and wouldn’t let them be printed…’
The ‘Saturdays Heroes’ album was released soon after this and also marked the first time the band went over to play gigs in Europe…
‘Yeah, and it went really well, although as I was saying, we were still treating it all as fun. We just looked at it like, let’s play these gigs and have a lot of fun. I don’t think we even realised at the time how many people really liked what we were doing. We just wanted to enjoy playing, have some drinks and not lose any money.’
Although you played further gigs in Europe and released the ‘Welcome to the Real World’ album over the next couple of years, the band went on hold again in 1989…
‘Yeah, that was the beginning of the wilderness years for us. Me and Micky were living in the same area so we’d still meet up and drink together at our local pub, but I think we didn’t realise that people were still interested in The Business. The label ‘Oi’ had become a bad-word and there were virtually no promoters willing to book a band associated with it. There were very few record labels or distributors that would work with Oi bands and the general consensus was that it was all over. It meant that, even if we had wanted to do something, we wouldn’t have been able to find anyone to release our records or book any gigs, so it seemed that we wouldn’t be able to play. It was a horrible situation for us to be in and it wasn’t until 1993, when Bobby Moore died, that we were asked to play at a tribute concert for him at the Stick of Rock pub in Bethnal Green. We agreed to do it and we only planned to play five numbers, so we were surprised how well it went down. People who saw us were telling their mates how much they’d enjoyed seeing us and eventually, the rumours reached Marc at the MAD booking agency in Germany. He became interested in booking a European tour for us and got in touch.
The thing was, in Europe, people weren’t so fussed about what the music press might have said about us and were more interested in seeing a band that they wanted to see. So Marc took a chance and booked a tour for us, to see if it would work out. Well, fuck me, it really worked out. Lots of people turned up and packed-out all of the venues. It was a huge success for us and MAD and the buzz went around… We ended up playing with a lot of American bands, when they came over to Europe, bands like Agnostic Front, The Bruisers, Madball and Slapshot… MAD were really more interested in Hardcore bands, but they could also see where we had influenced a lot of those bands and it all worked out. We decided to play a couple of low-key gigs in London to see how they would go, but the turning point for us was when we played the ‘Fuck Reading’ gig at Brixton Academy. The thing was, the line-up that year included punk bands like The Exploited and GBH and also Hardcore bands like Sick Of It All and Madball, which was the first time a London promoter had tried something like that. We went and played all of the old Business classics and effectively hijacking the show. I’ve never forgotten the response we received… the whole audience seemed to lose the plot and get into it. This was clearly something that a lot of people had been waiting to see and whatever the music press, the booking agents or the promoters might have been saying about us, the fans and the people who actually support the scene knew that this was what they wanted. After we played that gig and got that response, it was obviously ready to happen for us again and that gig proved to be the big turning-point in the UK.’
It was good-timing as well, as only a few months earlier The Business had tried to play a low-key gig in Kings Cross, only for it to be disrupted by a gang of right-wing thugs. That could have easily ruined things for the band…
‘Well, as much as it was horrible when it happened, it ended-up working out in our favour because it proved once and for all that the right-wing lot didn’t like us and they certainly weren’t something that we supported. The press had been peddling the story that all Oi bands and skinheads were right-wing for years, which was just not the case with us. But it’s all too easy to get tarred by the same brush and it wasn’t until after that happened that it became very clear to everyone that we didn’t support any of that stuff. After that, word got around and we started to get gigs offered all over the place. All the European promoters who had previously been wary about booking us opened up their doors and it began to feel like we were constantly on tour in Europe. And once that started happening, we started getting offers to play in America. We’d already played at Tramps in New York a couple of years earlier, but now they were offering us big tours.’
It was good-timing as well, as only a few months earlier The Business had tried to play a low-key gig in Kings Cross, only for it to be disrupted by a gang of right-wing thugs. That could have easily ruined things for the band…
‘Well, as much as it was horrible when it happened, it ended-up working out in our favour because it proved once and for all that the right-wing lot didn’t like us and they certainly weren’t something that we supported. The press had been peddling the story that all Oi bands and skinheads were right-wing for years, which was just not the case with us. But it’s all too easy to get tarred by the same brush and it wasn’t until after that happened that it became very clear to everyone that we didn’t support any of that stuff. After that, word got around and we started to get gigs offered all over the place. All the European promoters who had previously been wary about booking us opened up their doors and it began to feel like we were constantly on tour in Europe. And once that started happening, we started getting offers to play in America. We’d already played at Tramps in New York a couple of years earlier, but now they were offering us big tours.’
The other thing was that a lot of the American bands who were becoming popular around that time had also been influenced by the UK Oi Scene and were already big fans of The Business. Were you aware of that before you started touring in the States and playing with some of those bands?
‘No… We’d actually been told by one promoter, a few years earlier, that no-one knew of us in America and no-one was interested. We weren’t even on their radar and that was why no-one wanted to book us over there. So we had no idea at all that there were bands and punters that were already really into The Business. This guy called Boden, who was a bit of a Del-boy character, put the money together to fly us over and play that show at Tramps. There were 600 or 700 people packed in to the place and they went crazy! Up until then, we had no idea that anyone in America even knew who we were, but by the end of 1995, we were being offered more shows in Europe than we could manage and also getting more and more offers from America.’
It seemed appropriate that you signed up with Taang records in America for your next record, as they were a label that had started-out releasing records by Hardcore bands, many of which had been influenced by bands like The Business. Taang were now keen to release your new records and promote them to American punk / hardcore fans…
‘It’s one of the things that I like about Americans. They understand the origins of Hardcore and they’re not afraid to say that something’s good, regardless of where it comes from. They’ll listen to something like The Business and they can see that this is where it all comes from. Those guys from the New York scene, Vinnie, Roger, Freddie, Raybeez, God rest his soul… they all came out of the skinhead scene in New York and I think that connection became more and more apparent as time went on. Our bands played together and we all enjoyed each others’ music so it wasn’t surprising that the fans started to get into The Business as well.’
But while a bunch of the established bands from the American Hardcore scene were quite important when it came to The Business being embraced by American fans, The Business also started to affect the ongoing American Punk scene by influencing and encouraging some of the younger bands that were coming up at that time…
‘Well, I actually remember saying something to Micky, about how we could change the whole punk scene over there. He laughed at me, but what I meant was, the big thing over there at the time was all of that fast NoFX-style punk thing and sure-enough, we encouraged a lot of the up-and-coming working-class bands to play what’s now called ‘Street-punk’. I don’t think it’s being big-headed to say that we were a big influence on that when we released ‘The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing but The Truth’. That album was a game-changer and I think you can see that when you look at bands like the Dropkick Murphys. They used Lars Frederiksen as their producer, after he’d produced our record, because they basically wanted the same sound.’
‘No… We’d actually been told by one promoter, a few years earlier, that no-one knew of us in America and no-one was interested. We weren’t even on their radar and that was why no-one wanted to book us over there. So we had no idea at all that there were bands and punters that were already really into The Business. This guy called Boden, who was a bit of a Del-boy character, put the money together to fly us over and play that show at Tramps. There were 600 or 700 people packed in to the place and they went crazy! Up until then, we had no idea that anyone in America even knew who we were, but by the end of 1995, we were being offered more shows in Europe than we could manage and also getting more and more offers from America.’
It seemed appropriate that you signed up with Taang records in America for your next record, as they were a label that had started-out releasing records by Hardcore bands, many of which had been influenced by bands like The Business. Taang were now keen to release your new records and promote them to American punk / hardcore fans…
‘It’s one of the things that I like about Americans. They understand the origins of Hardcore and they’re not afraid to say that something’s good, regardless of where it comes from. They’ll listen to something like The Business and they can see that this is where it all comes from. Those guys from the New York scene, Vinnie, Roger, Freddie, Raybeez, God rest his soul… they all came out of the skinhead scene in New York and I think that connection became more and more apparent as time went on. Our bands played together and we all enjoyed each others’ music so it wasn’t surprising that the fans started to get into The Business as well.’
But while a bunch of the established bands from the American Hardcore scene were quite important when it came to The Business being embraced by American fans, The Business also started to affect the ongoing American Punk scene by influencing and encouraging some of the younger bands that were coming up at that time…
‘Well, I actually remember saying something to Micky, about how we could change the whole punk scene over there. He laughed at me, but what I meant was, the big thing over there at the time was all of that fast NoFX-style punk thing and sure-enough, we encouraged a lot of the up-and-coming working-class bands to play what’s now called ‘Street-punk’. I don’t think it’s being big-headed to say that we were a big influence on that when we released ‘The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing but The Truth’. That album was a game-changer and I think you can see that when you look at bands like the Dropkick Murphys. They used Lars Frederiksen as their producer, after he’d produced our record, because they basically wanted the same sound.’
Do you think the response to ‘The Truth’ LP and the success that you were having in both Europe and America changed your attitude towards the band in any ways?
‘That album was another turning-point for us in a lot of ways. I’ve already said that we used to look at the band as being a bit of a laugh and something we didn’t take too seriously, which was certainly the case up until ‘The Truth’ album, but that’s when the story started to change. I remember when we played at The Berkeley Square in California and Lars was there… one of the things that I loved about Rancid is their vocal melody-lines and that’s something that I’ve always felt that I wasn’t very good at. So, Lars is there at the gig and I said to Micky, go and ask him if he’ll produce our new record? Micky thought that was a great idea, so off he went… That was something I used to do with him, suggest an idea and then watch him go out and do it! So he spoke to Lars, got him to come backstage after the gig, and then we asked him if he’d like to produce our next album. Straight-away, he said ‘Fuck, yeah!’ and even offered to pay for his own air-fares to come over and do it… That’s the kind of guy he is! Anyway, when we got home after the tour we started to arrange the dates for him to come over and that was when I realised that I’d better start working on the new songs and making sure they’re ready on time. We realised, we’ve got a big opportunity here and we ought to start getting serious about it. By the time he arrived to start recording the album, I’d be in the studio all day and then when I got home, I’d be working on the songs until 3.00am before going to sleep and then getting up at 9.00am to go back to the studio. There were a couple of times when I actually fell asleep in the studio, but as far as the recording went, we took it really seriously and that’s why I think it came out so well.’
The album was certainly a point when people stopped thinking about The Business mostly in terms of your older material and started appreciating the new songs just as much…
‘Yeah, it changed a lot of the perceptions about us, particularly in America. It was extraordinary in terms of a band putting-out new material that’s just as good, or even better, than the songs that established them in the first place. But that’s what happened. There was a paradigm shift in terms of what we were doing, in that we wanted to present The Business as something apart from the whole Oi Thing. That label had never done us any favours, so we came up with this idea of ‘Street punk’ as a way to describe what we were doing. That’s what we started to talk about whenever we did any interviews and soon-enough, other bands, like The Casualties started to pick up on it. There were actually a lot of groups around at that time who weren’t really Oi bands, but they were more than happy to get involved with the idea of ‘Street-punk’ and that’s how this thing started to happen. It was a deliberate shift for The Business to get away from the Oi thing, but then other bands started to embrace it to the extent that it’s now one of the biggest genres within Punk. We deliberately started talking about ‘Street punk’ when we released ‘The Truth…’ album because we wanted to reach out to people who might still be put-off by the term ‘Oi’. In terms of now and what it’s become as its’ own form of punk, a lot of journalists and even TV companies seem to be a bit confused about where it actually came from. That’s why I keep mentioning it whenever I get interviewed, so that everyone knows where and when it first appeared.’
‘That album was another turning-point for us in a lot of ways. I’ve already said that we used to look at the band as being a bit of a laugh and something we didn’t take too seriously, which was certainly the case up until ‘The Truth’ album, but that’s when the story started to change. I remember when we played at The Berkeley Square in California and Lars was there… one of the things that I loved about Rancid is their vocal melody-lines and that’s something that I’ve always felt that I wasn’t very good at. So, Lars is there at the gig and I said to Micky, go and ask him if he’ll produce our new record? Micky thought that was a great idea, so off he went… That was something I used to do with him, suggest an idea and then watch him go out and do it! So he spoke to Lars, got him to come backstage after the gig, and then we asked him if he’d like to produce our next album. Straight-away, he said ‘Fuck, yeah!’ and even offered to pay for his own air-fares to come over and do it… That’s the kind of guy he is! Anyway, when we got home after the tour we started to arrange the dates for him to come over and that was when I realised that I’d better start working on the new songs and making sure they’re ready on time. We realised, we’ve got a big opportunity here and we ought to start getting serious about it. By the time he arrived to start recording the album, I’d be in the studio all day and then when I got home, I’d be working on the songs until 3.00am before going to sleep and then getting up at 9.00am to go back to the studio. There were a couple of times when I actually fell asleep in the studio, but as far as the recording went, we took it really seriously and that’s why I think it came out so well.’
The album was certainly a point when people stopped thinking about The Business mostly in terms of your older material and started appreciating the new songs just as much…
‘Yeah, it changed a lot of the perceptions about us, particularly in America. It was extraordinary in terms of a band putting-out new material that’s just as good, or even better, than the songs that established them in the first place. But that’s what happened. There was a paradigm shift in terms of what we were doing, in that we wanted to present The Business as something apart from the whole Oi Thing. That label had never done us any favours, so we came up with this idea of ‘Street punk’ as a way to describe what we were doing. That’s what we started to talk about whenever we did any interviews and soon-enough, other bands, like The Casualties started to pick up on it. There were actually a lot of groups around at that time who weren’t really Oi bands, but they were more than happy to get involved with the idea of ‘Street-punk’ and that’s how this thing started to happen. It was a deliberate shift for The Business to get away from the Oi thing, but then other bands started to embrace it to the extent that it’s now one of the biggest genres within Punk. We deliberately started talking about ‘Street punk’ when we released ‘The Truth…’ album because we wanted to reach out to people who might still be put-off by the term ‘Oi’. In terms of now and what it’s become as its’ own form of punk, a lot of journalists and even TV companies seem to be a bit confused about where it actually came from. That’s why I keep mentioning it whenever I get interviewed, so that everyone knows where and when it first appeared.’
It was unfortunate that the ‘Oi’ genre ended-up with so many bad connotations, because a lot of the original bands had really started out as working-class punk rock bands and certainly weren’t promoting violence or dodgy politics. But when the mainstream press started to print negative headlines about certain bands or incidents, the whole scene took the blame…
‘The biggest irony was that the original principles behind most of the bands were entirely socialist and even Gary Bushell came from that background. When he started working for Sounds, he found that he was the only working class person there and he was surrounded by all of these middle-class people with University backgrounds. He ended-up feeling isolated, like he was some kind of working-class oik, so he deliberately started to promote genuine working-class, socialist music. At the time, it ended-up with Sounds selling quarter of a million copies every week, so that shows that his initial idea was successful. Of course, later on there were some horrible things that happened, but the original principles were very positive and those were the same kind of ideas we were promoting when we started talking about Street-punk. We wanted to reinvigorate that whole scene as we felt those original principles were still worth pursuing. I think the way that Street-punk has developed into what it is now, it’s become quite a substantial thing but has also managed to stick with those principles, without being turned into some kind of scapegoat, in the same way that it happened to the Oi scene.’
The band released a split album, ‘Mob Mentality, with the Dropkick Murphys in 2000 and then switched labels to Burning Heart records in to release what would be their last studio album, ‘No Mercy For You’ in 2001. This included the song ‘Hell 2 Pay’ which was written for the soundtrack of the London gangster movie of the same name. How did you get involved with that?
‘We were asked to write the title track for the film. A bloke called Rob Gomez was the director and he asked me to go along for a meeting. He started telling me how much he’d loved Tim Roth’s character in ‘Made in England’ and particularly how he loved the opening sequence which featured music by The Exploited. He explained what he wanted and how it would feature in the film and I went away to work on it. I was able to spend quite a bit of time on it and came up with the song, which was a bit different to what we usually played. We recorded it and when I took it back to him, he loved it and I think it totally made sense as part of the film. Then, a little bit later, he got in touch again and said he had a part for me. He wanted me to play the part of a guy who chases one of the other characters down the road with a gun! I mean, basically, it was Dave Courtney’s film and the whole thing was pretty much an A-Z of the criminal fraternity of South London. A lot of those guys are either dead or in prison now, but the parts they played were actually what they did in real life. That was the interesting thing about the film, even though it was never going to be nominated for any Oscars or anything!’
‘The biggest irony was that the original principles behind most of the bands were entirely socialist and even Gary Bushell came from that background. When he started working for Sounds, he found that he was the only working class person there and he was surrounded by all of these middle-class people with University backgrounds. He ended-up feeling isolated, like he was some kind of working-class oik, so he deliberately started to promote genuine working-class, socialist music. At the time, it ended-up with Sounds selling quarter of a million copies every week, so that shows that his initial idea was successful. Of course, later on there were some horrible things that happened, but the original principles were very positive and those were the same kind of ideas we were promoting when we started talking about Street-punk. We wanted to reinvigorate that whole scene as we felt those original principles were still worth pursuing. I think the way that Street-punk has developed into what it is now, it’s become quite a substantial thing but has also managed to stick with those principles, without being turned into some kind of scapegoat, in the same way that it happened to the Oi scene.’
The band released a split album, ‘Mob Mentality, with the Dropkick Murphys in 2000 and then switched labels to Burning Heart records in to release what would be their last studio album, ‘No Mercy For You’ in 2001. This included the song ‘Hell 2 Pay’ which was written for the soundtrack of the London gangster movie of the same name. How did you get involved with that?
‘We were asked to write the title track for the film. A bloke called Rob Gomez was the director and he asked me to go along for a meeting. He started telling me how much he’d loved Tim Roth’s character in ‘Made in England’ and particularly how he loved the opening sequence which featured music by The Exploited. He explained what he wanted and how it would feature in the film and I went away to work on it. I was able to spend quite a bit of time on it and came up with the song, which was a bit different to what we usually played. We recorded it and when I took it back to him, he loved it and I think it totally made sense as part of the film. Then, a little bit later, he got in touch again and said he had a part for me. He wanted me to play the part of a guy who chases one of the other characters down the road with a gun! I mean, basically, it was Dave Courtney’s film and the whole thing was pretty much an A-Z of the criminal fraternity of South London. A lot of those guys are either dead or in prison now, but the parts they played were actually what they did in real life. That was the interesting thing about the film, even though it was never going to be nominated for any Oscars or anything!’
I’m not sure exactly when, but I think you ended up leaving The Business some time around 2004 ? As things seemed to be going so well, why did you decide to move on?
‘Well, we’d been signed to Taang when we released ‘The Truth…’ and ‘Mob Mentality, but then we signed to Burning Heart, it meant that we were being distributed by Epitaph records in America. They’d actually wanted to sign-us when they first heard ‘The Truth…’ but we were already signed to Taang at that point and they weren’t going to let us go. But after those albums, we were able to sign with Burning Heart / Epitaph and we released ‘No Mercy For You’ and the ‘Hardcore Hooligan’ compilation which both did really well. But when I started to look back, I realised that we’d spent virtually seven years on the road and I think it was finally taking its’ toll. We were travelling a lot from one gig to the next, playing the shows and then partying with our friends afterwards. Inevitably, things all became a bit strained and Micky was ending-up drinking too much and having problems with it… I’m not being nasty about that, because once he realised it was a problem he was pretty open about it and he was able to get it under control. It’s not really worth going down that road because it wasn’t really the problem, it was something that happened because of the problems we had. In fact, the thing that’s more worth mentioning about the period when me and Micky went our separate ways, was that I’d actually been in the studio working on the next Business record and it was virtually finished apart from Micky’s vocals. I ended-up getting some of my friends in to sing on it, just to see what it would sound like, but none of it has ever been released. So I’m still hopeful that it will get released sometime because, like you said, everyone thinks of ‘No Mercy For You’ as being the bands’ last studio album, but in fact there was another complete record written and most of it was recorded. All it was missing was Micky’s vocals, but by then he’d been in rehab, sorted himself out and put together a new version of The Business. After that, our paths would still cross every so often but we were never able to agree on a way to get the album completed because, I think, he didn’t want to do something that didn’t want to do something new without his new line-up. Bur when he let it be known that he had cancer, he made a point of getting in contact with me again and that was something that was very important for me. I went to see him and, after we had caught up, he asked me to take care of a few things that needed to be sorted out, things to do with record labels and his wife and family. Of course, I got involved in it and started getting in touch with all of the record companies that we’d previously worked with, telling them that they really needed to settle-up with the money they owed, which turned out to be quite substantial. I told them, Micky needs this money right now, so that he knows his family will be secure, and I have to say, pretty-much all of them paid-up as quickly as they could. I also went through all of his royalty statements and made sure all of that was up to date, so that before he passed-on, he knew that there was a big chunk of money going into his account and he didn’t have to worry about his family having problems. So we completely reconciled and were mates again, which is how it should have been.’
‘Well, we’d been signed to Taang when we released ‘The Truth…’ and ‘Mob Mentality, but then we signed to Burning Heart, it meant that we were being distributed by Epitaph records in America. They’d actually wanted to sign-us when they first heard ‘The Truth…’ but we were already signed to Taang at that point and they weren’t going to let us go. But after those albums, we were able to sign with Burning Heart / Epitaph and we released ‘No Mercy For You’ and the ‘Hardcore Hooligan’ compilation which both did really well. But when I started to look back, I realised that we’d spent virtually seven years on the road and I think it was finally taking its’ toll. We were travelling a lot from one gig to the next, playing the shows and then partying with our friends afterwards. Inevitably, things all became a bit strained and Micky was ending-up drinking too much and having problems with it… I’m not being nasty about that, because once he realised it was a problem he was pretty open about it and he was able to get it under control. It’s not really worth going down that road because it wasn’t really the problem, it was something that happened because of the problems we had. In fact, the thing that’s more worth mentioning about the period when me and Micky went our separate ways, was that I’d actually been in the studio working on the next Business record and it was virtually finished apart from Micky’s vocals. I ended-up getting some of my friends in to sing on it, just to see what it would sound like, but none of it has ever been released. So I’m still hopeful that it will get released sometime because, like you said, everyone thinks of ‘No Mercy For You’ as being the bands’ last studio album, but in fact there was another complete record written and most of it was recorded. All it was missing was Micky’s vocals, but by then he’d been in rehab, sorted himself out and put together a new version of The Business. After that, our paths would still cross every so often but we were never able to agree on a way to get the album completed because, I think, he didn’t want to do something that didn’t want to do something new without his new line-up. Bur when he let it be known that he had cancer, he made a point of getting in contact with me again and that was something that was very important for me. I went to see him and, after we had caught up, he asked me to take care of a few things that needed to be sorted out, things to do with record labels and his wife and family. Of course, I got involved in it and started getting in touch with all of the record companies that we’d previously worked with, telling them that they really needed to settle-up with the money they owed, which turned out to be quite substantial. I told them, Micky needs this money right now, so that he knows his family will be secure, and I have to say, pretty-much all of them paid-up as quickly as they could. I also went through all of his royalty statements and made sure all of that was up to date, so that before he passed-on, he knew that there was a big chunk of money going into his account and he didn’t have to worry about his family having problems. So we completely reconciled and were mates again, which is how it should have been.’
A few years after you left The Business, you played with Steve Ignorants’ band when he did the ‘Feeding of the 5000’ gigs at Shepherds Bush Empire…
‘Yeah… I’d been friends with Steve for ages, although I don’t think his fans liked me being there at those gigs! He got a lot of grief about those gigs because a lot of people didn’t like the fact that he was playing all of the old Crass songs again and some of them particularly didn’t like the idea of me being in the band. But actually playing the gigs was a fantastic experience and both nights were sold-out. I can remember playing some of those old Crass songs and having chills going down the back of my spine. ‘Shaved Women’ sounded so good, I was just buzzing. It was electrifying. Gizz Butt was playing the other guitar with a rectifier so he had a harder guitar sound, while I had my usual Marshall sound, and the overall effect was so huge it was scary! We also had Vom playing drums and he’s great, so it really was an extraordinary experience. Just being onstage and playing those songs with Steve was something I really enjoyed.’
Bringing things right up to date, early in 2019 you announced that you, Steve Kent and Micky Fairburn would be playing a few gigs with guest vocalists as a tribute to Micky Fitz, the first at the Punk & Disorderly festival in Berlin and another at Rebellion Festival in Blackpool. You’ve also played further gigs since then in different countries, as well as the very successful night at the 100 Club back in December. Did you expect these gigs to become an ongoing thing?
‘No, but it just seems to have turned-out the same way as it always used to be with The Business. Marc at MAD rang me and asked me if we’d consider playing at the Punk & Disorderly festival. I thought about it and decided that it had been enough time since Micky had died to try and do something, plus it was starting to feel like everyone had already forgotten about him and The Business. Apart from a few select people, everyone seemed to be putting it all in the past and I didn’t think that was right. People forget things very quickly in the music industry and the fans just move on to another group. That’s what I felt was the case with The Business, so when Marc initiated the idea, I thought it made sense. But of course, it wasn’t just down to me. I had to ask Steve Kent and Micky Drummer as well. But when I spoke with them, they both agreed that it would be a good thing to do and the time was right so that part of it came together pretty easily. The difficult thing was deciding who we should get as the singer. I mean, who could you get to replace Micky Fitz? That was really difficult, which is one of the reasons why we ended up playing with three different singers (Mike Brands from the Arch Rivals, Sebi from Stomper 98 and Roi Pearce from The Last Resort.) The thing for me was that, Mike Brands actually looks quite like Micky, so a couple of times when I’ve been onstage, I’ve turned around and seen Mike and it’s given me a bit of a flashback because I’m still expecting Micky to be there. It can be really difficult when you get those flashbacks every time you play. I mean, it’s very rarely from the front of my mind, but you know, we kind of grew up together and then for a long time we were spending 24/7 together out on the road, so it’s inevitable that these kind of things are going to happen. So I’ve tried to approach these gigs in the most sensitive way I can whilst still keeping Micky’s name and the name of The Business alive. I think it’s important that Micky and The Business are kept in people’s minds because I think they should be acknowledged as being the place that Street punk really came from. It didn’t come from Europe or America, even though most of the popular bands come from those places now. Originally it came from London and the UK. It’s been a case of finding the right balance in the ways that we’ve played these shows, to make sure that they pay tribute to Micky and The Business but also show that what we did back then is still an important part of the scene right now.’
‘Yeah… I’d been friends with Steve for ages, although I don’t think his fans liked me being there at those gigs! He got a lot of grief about those gigs because a lot of people didn’t like the fact that he was playing all of the old Crass songs again and some of them particularly didn’t like the idea of me being in the band. But actually playing the gigs was a fantastic experience and both nights were sold-out. I can remember playing some of those old Crass songs and having chills going down the back of my spine. ‘Shaved Women’ sounded so good, I was just buzzing. It was electrifying. Gizz Butt was playing the other guitar with a rectifier so he had a harder guitar sound, while I had my usual Marshall sound, and the overall effect was so huge it was scary! We also had Vom playing drums and he’s great, so it really was an extraordinary experience. Just being onstage and playing those songs with Steve was something I really enjoyed.’
Bringing things right up to date, early in 2019 you announced that you, Steve Kent and Micky Fairburn would be playing a few gigs with guest vocalists as a tribute to Micky Fitz, the first at the Punk & Disorderly festival in Berlin and another at Rebellion Festival in Blackpool. You’ve also played further gigs since then in different countries, as well as the very successful night at the 100 Club back in December. Did you expect these gigs to become an ongoing thing?
‘No, but it just seems to have turned-out the same way as it always used to be with The Business. Marc at MAD rang me and asked me if we’d consider playing at the Punk & Disorderly festival. I thought about it and decided that it had been enough time since Micky had died to try and do something, plus it was starting to feel like everyone had already forgotten about him and The Business. Apart from a few select people, everyone seemed to be putting it all in the past and I didn’t think that was right. People forget things very quickly in the music industry and the fans just move on to another group. That’s what I felt was the case with The Business, so when Marc initiated the idea, I thought it made sense. But of course, it wasn’t just down to me. I had to ask Steve Kent and Micky Drummer as well. But when I spoke with them, they both agreed that it would be a good thing to do and the time was right so that part of it came together pretty easily. The difficult thing was deciding who we should get as the singer. I mean, who could you get to replace Micky Fitz? That was really difficult, which is one of the reasons why we ended up playing with three different singers (Mike Brands from the Arch Rivals, Sebi from Stomper 98 and Roi Pearce from The Last Resort.) The thing for me was that, Mike Brands actually looks quite like Micky, so a couple of times when I’ve been onstage, I’ve turned around and seen Mike and it’s given me a bit of a flashback because I’m still expecting Micky to be there. It can be really difficult when you get those flashbacks every time you play. I mean, it’s very rarely from the front of my mind, but you know, we kind of grew up together and then for a long time we were spending 24/7 together out on the road, so it’s inevitable that these kind of things are going to happen. So I’ve tried to approach these gigs in the most sensitive way I can whilst still keeping Micky’s name and the name of The Business alive. I think it’s important that Micky and The Business are kept in people’s minds because I think they should be acknowledged as being the place that Street punk really came from. It didn’t come from Europe or America, even though most of the popular bands come from those places now. Originally it came from London and the UK. It’s been a case of finding the right balance in the ways that we’ve played these shows, to make sure that they pay tribute to Micky and The Business but also show that what we did back then is still an important part of the scene right now.’
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So, although you originally intended to only play a few of these gigs, are you now likely to continue? And, aside from the unreleased album you already mentioned, do you think you’d ever consider rereleasing new material with this line-up?
‘Well, so far we’ve only played in Europe, but there’s been such a great response to the live shows that we’re being asked to go and play in quite a lot of other places, particularly in America. That totally makes sense as it was the American audiences that really put us back on the map, to a great extent. So I think that will be happening … We’ve been invited to play at Punk Rock Bowling and trying to organise that at the moment.
(The date was confirmed but unfortunately has since been postponed due to the Coronavirus situation)
It’ll mean a lot to us as the band had a big connection with America and the fans over there really helped to re-establish The Business back in the Nineties. They treated us really well and we always appreciated that. But as far as recording any new records with this line-up, I’m not sure we should do that. We’ve already been asked to record a track for a new Oi album and that’s perhaps possible, but I think the only way we could do it is if we wrote a tribute to Micky. But in terms of moving forward, I really can’t see any possibility of this line-up recording anything new as ‘The Business’. The only thing that might be possible would be a recording of one of the live sets with the guest singers, but I don’t think we could record anything new and release it as The Business. I just don’t think that would be right. There’s a chance me, Steve Kent and Micky Drummer might do something together, but that would have to be under a different name. It just isn’t The Business without Micky and I don’t think any of us would want to do that.’
As the final pints of Guinness are finished, we end the interview there. If you’re a fan and you get the opportunity, you should try to see one of the gigs that this line-up are playing because you may never get another chance and it’s the closest you’ll get to the original, classic band. And if you haven’t heard them before, most of their albums are still in print and you really should check them out.
‘Well, so far we’ve only played in Europe, but there’s been such a great response to the live shows that we’re being asked to go and play in quite a lot of other places, particularly in America. That totally makes sense as it was the American audiences that really put us back on the map, to a great extent. So I think that will be happening … We’ve been invited to play at Punk Rock Bowling and trying to organise that at the moment.
(The date was confirmed but unfortunately has since been postponed due to the Coronavirus situation)
It’ll mean a lot to us as the band had a big connection with America and the fans over there really helped to re-establish The Business back in the Nineties. They treated us really well and we always appreciated that. But as far as recording any new records with this line-up, I’m not sure we should do that. We’ve already been asked to record a track for a new Oi album and that’s perhaps possible, but I think the only way we could do it is if we wrote a tribute to Micky. But in terms of moving forward, I really can’t see any possibility of this line-up recording anything new as ‘The Business’. The only thing that might be possible would be a recording of one of the live sets with the guest singers, but I don’t think we could record anything new and release it as The Business. I just don’t think that would be right. There’s a chance me, Steve Kent and Micky Drummer might do something together, but that would have to be under a different name. It just isn’t The Business without Micky and I don’t think any of us would want to do that.’
As the final pints of Guinness are finished, we end the interview there. If you’re a fan and you get the opportunity, you should try to see one of the gigs that this line-up are playing because you may never get another chance and it’s the closest you’ll get to the original, classic band. And if you haven’t heard them before, most of their albums are still in print and you really should check them out.
There are two websites representing The Business at the moment. For news (and history) concerning the current line-up, you can check out this ;
www.facebook.com/OiTheBusiness
www.facebook.com/OiTheBusiness
.Meanwhile, this is a site dedicated to Micky and run by the Sailors Grave label with input from Micks' family and friends
www.facebook.com/TheBusinessOi
www.facebook.com/TheBusinessOi
Dedicated to Micky Fitz, of course.
We're all missing ya !
We're all missing ya !