I know virtually every article written about Peter Perrett since the release of ‘How The West Was Won’ in 2017 has started by saying how remarkable it is that he had returned with such a great album after so many years with no new records and very few live appearances. But it has to be said as, at a point when very few fans ever expected him to record again, he re-emerged not just with new material but with a truly great album. Subsequent touring was met with equal acclaim and also revealed further as-yet unreleased songs, so hopes remained high. Earlier this year, his latest album, ‘Humanworld’ was released and, if anything, is even better than its’ predecessor. It seems that Perrett is back and, creatively, firing on all cylinders.
Over the same period since ‘How The West Was Won’ was released, I started bumping into Peter and his wife Zena on an unexpected regularity, either at gigs where we had mutual friends or at other events. Both proved to be very nice, unassuming people and I eventually broached the subject of an interview. With the new album almost complete at that point, we decided to wait until its’ release, but they gave me details of who to contact so I could get back in touch at an appropriate time. When the album was released, earlier this year, it coincided with a period of touring, so I had to wait until he was back at home but then made arrangements . Not long afterwards, I went along to Newington Green one evening to meet him.
Over the same period since ‘How The West Was Won’ was released, I started bumping into Peter and his wife Zena on an unexpected regularity, either at gigs where we had mutual friends or at other events. Both proved to be very nice, unassuming people and I eventually broached the subject of an interview. With the new album almost complete at that point, we decided to wait until its’ release, but they gave me details of who to contact so I could get back in touch at an appropriate time. When the album was released, earlier this year, it coincided with a period of touring, so I had to wait until he was back at home but then made arrangements . Not long afterwards, I went along to Newington Green one evening to meet him.
Sitting in the middle of a room packed with musical and recording equipment, I started by asking about how the new album had come together. ‘How The West Was Won’ felt more like a ‘solo’ album whereas the new one gives the impression that you worked more as a whole band… Was that your intention ?
‘It’s the same band on both albums, but the viola and keyboards were a lot more sparse on the first one. When we recorded that, it was basically just two guitars, bass and drums with hardly any overdubs, and the vocals were very upfront. It definitely concentrated on my voice… But with the new record, I consciously wanted it to have more depth musically, so that there’s more to discover as you listen to it again. So, yeah, it does sound more like a whole band because it was put together like that and I’m really happy with the way it sounds. It really benefits from repeated listens, whereas with the first album, after you’d heard it a few times you knew more or less what was there. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you won’t still enjoy it anymore, but just that there was nothing new to discover. With this album, there are a lot of little, delicate things that you may not even notice until you’ve listened to it nine or ten times. I really like having those kind of things which don’t hit you straight away. The electric viola and the keyboards contribute a lot more to the overall sound this time and there are also more layers of guitar, so it’s definitely more of an ensemble effort this time.’
The new album has a very different feel to ‘How The West Was Won’. After the success you had with that album, a lot of people would have probably expected you to continue in that style…
‘That’s something that would be against my nature. I hate being predictable and I hate following rules, so if I ever made an album that everyone liked, I’d hate to be expected to repeat it and I don’t think I could bring myself to do it. I’m sure that some people would find comfort in doing that but I feel like it’s my duty to be more challenging, both for the listeners and myself. If I’ve said something once, I don’t want to have to say it again. It’s like, part of the reason why I’ve recently changed some of the third verse in ‘How The West Was Won’ is because it was originally a joke and once you start repeating a joke, it soon becomes boring. In the same way, when we started working on this album, I wanted it to sound different. I’ve always liked the idea of putting the listener into a place that isn’t necessarily comfortable. I don’t like the idea that people might just listen to one of my records as background music. I want it to be something where they have to pay attention. Even as far back as the first Only Ones album, it started with ‘The Whole of the Law’, which was very slow, then came ‘Another Girl Another Planet', which was our fastest song… But next was ‘Break It Down’ which was almost jazzy… So it’s always been important to me to try and drag the listener to places where they might not want to go, or at least are unexpected. Hopefully, I’ve succeeded with this album because I think it’s rewarding from beginning to end. I’ve always thought of albums in that way and try to write a set of songs that will be an emotional journey. I never set out to write songs with the idea that they might capture a new audience or appeal on an anthemic level or anything like that. I try to write songs that will take you through lots of different emotions so that the album will be satisfying when you reach the end and make you want to go through it again. I’m really happy with this collection of songs… We intentionally made them shorter so that there’s an urgency there and I think they’ve really added something to our live set… Recently, we’ve been starting with six or seven songs from ‘How The West Was Won’ followed by a few Only Ones’ songs and then we’ve been playing six or seven from the new album and it seems to flow really well like that. A lot of bands would usually save the songs that are already in the publics’ consciousness until the end, building-up the set that way. We played our recent tour just before the new album came out, so the audience didn’t know a lot of the songs. but it didn’t seem to infringe on the overall excitement, which I think is a good sign. I’ve also been abbreviating some of the songs from ‘How the West Was Won’ when we play them live… I’m not sure if people have really noticed, but I’ve been taking certain bits out and it really seems to let the dynamics build-up a lot better. I think the first album was a lot more relaxed than the way I feel now. I was really happy that I was writing new songs and I was going to be making a record, so I guess I was slightly laid-back with it. But this one is a bit more on the edge, a bit more uptempo and with a bit more aggression.'
‘It’s the same band on both albums, but the viola and keyboards were a lot more sparse on the first one. When we recorded that, it was basically just two guitars, bass and drums with hardly any overdubs, and the vocals were very upfront. It definitely concentrated on my voice… But with the new record, I consciously wanted it to have more depth musically, so that there’s more to discover as you listen to it again. So, yeah, it does sound more like a whole band because it was put together like that and I’m really happy with the way it sounds. It really benefits from repeated listens, whereas with the first album, after you’d heard it a few times you knew more or less what was there. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you won’t still enjoy it anymore, but just that there was nothing new to discover. With this album, there are a lot of little, delicate things that you may not even notice until you’ve listened to it nine or ten times. I really like having those kind of things which don’t hit you straight away. The electric viola and the keyboards contribute a lot more to the overall sound this time and there are also more layers of guitar, so it’s definitely more of an ensemble effort this time.’
The new album has a very different feel to ‘How The West Was Won’. After the success you had with that album, a lot of people would have probably expected you to continue in that style…
‘That’s something that would be against my nature. I hate being predictable and I hate following rules, so if I ever made an album that everyone liked, I’d hate to be expected to repeat it and I don’t think I could bring myself to do it. I’m sure that some people would find comfort in doing that but I feel like it’s my duty to be more challenging, both for the listeners and myself. If I’ve said something once, I don’t want to have to say it again. It’s like, part of the reason why I’ve recently changed some of the third verse in ‘How The West Was Won’ is because it was originally a joke and once you start repeating a joke, it soon becomes boring. In the same way, when we started working on this album, I wanted it to sound different. I’ve always liked the idea of putting the listener into a place that isn’t necessarily comfortable. I don’t like the idea that people might just listen to one of my records as background music. I want it to be something where they have to pay attention. Even as far back as the first Only Ones album, it started with ‘The Whole of the Law’, which was very slow, then came ‘Another Girl Another Planet', which was our fastest song… But next was ‘Break It Down’ which was almost jazzy… So it’s always been important to me to try and drag the listener to places where they might not want to go, or at least are unexpected. Hopefully, I’ve succeeded with this album because I think it’s rewarding from beginning to end. I’ve always thought of albums in that way and try to write a set of songs that will be an emotional journey. I never set out to write songs with the idea that they might capture a new audience or appeal on an anthemic level or anything like that. I try to write songs that will take you through lots of different emotions so that the album will be satisfying when you reach the end and make you want to go through it again. I’m really happy with this collection of songs… We intentionally made them shorter so that there’s an urgency there and I think they’ve really added something to our live set… Recently, we’ve been starting with six or seven songs from ‘How The West Was Won’ followed by a few Only Ones’ songs and then we’ve been playing six or seven from the new album and it seems to flow really well like that. A lot of bands would usually save the songs that are already in the publics’ consciousness until the end, building-up the set that way. We played our recent tour just before the new album came out, so the audience didn’t know a lot of the songs. but it didn’t seem to infringe on the overall excitement, which I think is a good sign. I’ve also been abbreviating some of the songs from ‘How the West Was Won’ when we play them live… I’m not sure if people have really noticed, but I’ve been taking certain bits out and it really seems to let the dynamics build-up a lot better. I think the first album was a lot more relaxed than the way I feel now. I was really happy that I was writing new songs and I was going to be making a record, so I guess I was slightly laid-back with it. But this one is a bit more on the edge, a bit more uptempo and with a bit more aggression.'
It’s as if the last album was more introverted while ‘Humanworld’ is more about what’s going on around you…
‘Yeah, the first one was more reflective, while the new one is more to the point. I think the lyrics are a lot more simple and direct, but still convey emotions. The lyrics on the first album were a lot more reflective and, to some extent, enjoying their own intellectuality. It’s a bit difficult to explain this sort of thing because I don’t give too much thought to the way I write lyrics, they just come out. But I’m aware that the lyrics on the new album are pretty different to the last one and I’m enjoying their simplicity a lot more at the moment. I think with the first album that I felt, to some extent, that I had to prove that I could still write clever, more involved lyrics. But now I’m more concerned with conveying emotions in simple, basic language. Sometimes, I think you can convey more with simple words than if you become too vague or enigmatic. I mean, that can also be fun and it can satisfy you from a creative point of view, but other times you can get a greater satisfaction from saying things in a really direct way, so that people feel those emotions. But I don’t think I could ever write lyrics that are just one dimensional because I like lyrics that are ambivalent. I think I’ve always found ambivalence in every aspect of my life and my personality… I have difficulty convincing myself that I believe in any one thing because I’ll usually believe in the complete opposite at the same time. It sounds confusing, but I am confused and it is a very confusing world ! Sometimes it’s as if I’m living in two different dimensions at the same time and there’s a kind of safety in that because you don’t feel trapped by either of them. It’s also an escape-route for when the world gets really ugly… But at the same time I also think it’s better to engage in real life rather than the virtual world, because that can be the scariest place on Earth… You’re not looking into people’s eyes and seeing the goodness that’s in other human beings. You’re just seeing some political discourse which is usually two sides that are just as brainwashed as each other. That’s especially true in America, but it’s also very much the case in England since Brexit… It’s a way of controlling people, by polarising society and keeping the so-called left against the so-called right and making sure that they hate each other, because that will stop people thinking about who’s really fucking-up the world.’
‘Yeah, the first one was more reflective, while the new one is more to the point. I think the lyrics are a lot more simple and direct, but still convey emotions. The lyrics on the first album were a lot more reflective and, to some extent, enjoying their own intellectuality. It’s a bit difficult to explain this sort of thing because I don’t give too much thought to the way I write lyrics, they just come out. But I’m aware that the lyrics on the new album are pretty different to the last one and I’m enjoying their simplicity a lot more at the moment. I think with the first album that I felt, to some extent, that I had to prove that I could still write clever, more involved lyrics. But now I’m more concerned with conveying emotions in simple, basic language. Sometimes, I think you can convey more with simple words than if you become too vague or enigmatic. I mean, that can also be fun and it can satisfy you from a creative point of view, but other times you can get a greater satisfaction from saying things in a really direct way, so that people feel those emotions. But I don’t think I could ever write lyrics that are just one dimensional because I like lyrics that are ambivalent. I think I’ve always found ambivalence in every aspect of my life and my personality… I have difficulty convincing myself that I believe in any one thing because I’ll usually believe in the complete opposite at the same time. It sounds confusing, but I am confused and it is a very confusing world ! Sometimes it’s as if I’m living in two different dimensions at the same time and there’s a kind of safety in that because you don’t feel trapped by either of them. It’s also an escape-route for when the world gets really ugly… But at the same time I also think it’s better to engage in real life rather than the virtual world, because that can be the scariest place on Earth… You’re not looking into people’s eyes and seeing the goodness that’s in other human beings. You’re just seeing some political discourse which is usually two sides that are just as brainwashed as each other. That’s especially true in America, but it’s also very much the case in England since Brexit… It’s a way of controlling people, by polarising society and keeping the so-called left against the so-called right and making sure that they hate each other, because that will stop people thinking about who’s really fucking-up the world.’
One of the songs on the new album, ‘War Plan Red’, seems to deal with these issues, particularly in relation to America. It’s easy to look at Trump and say that America is a terrible place, but at the same time there are so many people who are totally opposed to what his policies…
‘Well, there are certain things about America that have always been fucked-up and Trump isn’t the cause, he’s just a symptom of the way America has always been. But most people – everywhere – are decent people who love their children, don’t torture their pets and would be happy to help a stranger. Most people are like that, but all over the world, you’ll always find some people who are really fucked-up and dangerous. The problem they have in America is the system they have, this two-party dictatorship which has convinced the people that it’s a democracy… I mean, the Republicans can be really ugly, people like Reagan or Bush, but the so-called Democrats have done just as many evil things to the world. The problem is that you can’t say that to the Democrat-supporters because they’ve been convinced by identity politics and political correctness that they’re right-thinking, open-minded, liberal people… That’s what keeps them thinking that everything isn’t fucked-up, because they vote Democrat and they’re the good guys. But if you criticised Hillary Clinton, they’d immediately accuse you of being misogynistic, even though she was at least partly responsible for destroying the civilised country that Libya was, and then boasting about it… You can see the clip on youtube where she says, ‘We came, we saw, he died’, about someone who was brutally murdered and sodomised… I mean, when you that footage of her saying that and laughing about it, you can’t help but hate Hillary Clinton. So, while that last election was happening, I hated Hillary while I didn’t hate Trump because he was just an idiot who hadn’t done any of the the evil things that Hillary has… He’s certainly said a lot of evil things and exacerbated situations, but at the end of the day, there’s no real difference between the two of them. They’re just symptoms of American politics and they’re just puppets for the people who really run things over there. The people who voted for Trump aren’t necessarily bad, they’re just people who wanted to vote for a supposed outsider because they’ve become so disillusioned by the whole political system. I’m sure that a lot of people who voted for Trump did so because they saw him as someone who was sticking-up two fingers at the establishment, despite the fact that he’s a billionaire who’s been owned by the Saudi’s for the last thirty years… he was going bankrupt in the Nineties and the Saudis bailed him out ! I mean, perhaps if Bernie Sanders had run instead of Hillary, they would have seen him as the outsider and perhaps he would have actually benefited normal, working people. It’s so easy to get depressed about the state of the world, so I suppose you have to have some sort of safety mechanism to escape from it. For me, I just try to talk to people so that I realise that there is still good in humanity and have faith that it will eventually prevail… maybe not in our lifetime but at some point !’
When you introduced the opening track from the new album, ‘I Want Your Dreams’, at the Scala gig, you told a story about the song and dedicated it to Patti Palladin…
‘It wasn’t inspired by her, but I wanted to dedicate it to her because she writes emails to me and one time she was describing a situation, something the she was fantasising about... When I read it, I thought, if that was reality it would be so great, and I wrote back, ‘I want your dreams !’ She had already heard the song and recognised the title, so she replied that I ought to dedicate the song to her… So, it wasn’t actually inspired by her but it seemed appropriate to dedicate it to her . We don’t see each other all that often, so we like sending emails and there’s some great correspondence between us.’
‘Well, there are certain things about America that have always been fucked-up and Trump isn’t the cause, he’s just a symptom of the way America has always been. But most people – everywhere – are decent people who love their children, don’t torture their pets and would be happy to help a stranger. Most people are like that, but all over the world, you’ll always find some people who are really fucked-up and dangerous. The problem they have in America is the system they have, this two-party dictatorship which has convinced the people that it’s a democracy… I mean, the Republicans can be really ugly, people like Reagan or Bush, but the so-called Democrats have done just as many evil things to the world. The problem is that you can’t say that to the Democrat-supporters because they’ve been convinced by identity politics and political correctness that they’re right-thinking, open-minded, liberal people… That’s what keeps them thinking that everything isn’t fucked-up, because they vote Democrat and they’re the good guys. But if you criticised Hillary Clinton, they’d immediately accuse you of being misogynistic, even though she was at least partly responsible for destroying the civilised country that Libya was, and then boasting about it… You can see the clip on youtube where she says, ‘We came, we saw, he died’, about someone who was brutally murdered and sodomised… I mean, when you that footage of her saying that and laughing about it, you can’t help but hate Hillary Clinton. So, while that last election was happening, I hated Hillary while I didn’t hate Trump because he was just an idiot who hadn’t done any of the the evil things that Hillary has… He’s certainly said a lot of evil things and exacerbated situations, but at the end of the day, there’s no real difference between the two of them. They’re just symptoms of American politics and they’re just puppets for the people who really run things over there. The people who voted for Trump aren’t necessarily bad, they’re just people who wanted to vote for a supposed outsider because they’ve become so disillusioned by the whole political system. I’m sure that a lot of people who voted for Trump did so because they saw him as someone who was sticking-up two fingers at the establishment, despite the fact that he’s a billionaire who’s been owned by the Saudi’s for the last thirty years… he was going bankrupt in the Nineties and the Saudis bailed him out ! I mean, perhaps if Bernie Sanders had run instead of Hillary, they would have seen him as the outsider and perhaps he would have actually benefited normal, working people. It’s so easy to get depressed about the state of the world, so I suppose you have to have some sort of safety mechanism to escape from it. For me, I just try to talk to people so that I realise that there is still good in humanity and have faith that it will eventually prevail… maybe not in our lifetime but at some point !’
When you introduced the opening track from the new album, ‘I Want Your Dreams’, at the Scala gig, you told a story about the song and dedicated it to Patti Palladin…
‘It wasn’t inspired by her, but I wanted to dedicate it to her because she writes emails to me and one time she was describing a situation, something the she was fantasising about... When I read it, I thought, if that was reality it would be so great, and I wrote back, ‘I want your dreams !’ She had already heard the song and recognised the title, so she replied that I ought to dedicate the song to her… So, it wasn’t actually inspired by her but it seemed appropriate to dedicate it to her . We don’t see each other all that often, so we like sending emails and there’s some great correspondence between us.’
The second song on the album, ‘Once is Enough’, seems to be about a specific person…
‘I think at the Scala gig, I dedicated that song to more than one person because it was initially inspired by someone in particular but it became more about several different people that I’ve known. Forty years ago, I’d write about different girls and different girlfriends and it was usually about relations that tended to get complicated because they were physical relationships. But now I’m more in a controlled environment where I can have relationships with girls where I can enjoy their company as females but it doesn’t get to the point where I can do any damage, because they don’t become physical relationships. I wouldn’t have been able to do that forty years ago, because if I ever felt emotionally-close to somebody, then it inevitably developed into a physical relationship. But I’ve found that there’s a freedom, or a liberation, in having female friends where I can enjoy their company and maybe even flirt with them, but without things getting complicated. That’s a totally different dynamic… My songs are always about real people or things but I don’t tend to limit them to one specific person.’
Another difference with this album is that it includes Jamie’s song, ‘Master of Destruction’ and he was also responsible for the production…
‘Yeah, he produced it together with my assistance and interference, but ultimately acquiescence… Fortunately, we have very similar tastes so 90% of the time, we agree about everything. Occasionally there’ll be something that I’ll want quieter or louder, so it has to be a give-and-take relationship, but he’s the producer because he’s the one with the best ears. I’ll just give my opinion and on the occasions when my opinion is different to his, either he’ll end up agreeing with me or he’ll try to fool me… like, he knows that if I don’t like something he can take it out and wait for me to forget about it and then he can then put it back in, maybe a little bit quieter so that I won’t notice it ! That’s happened in various places, hahaha ! But young ears are much better for that job, because there are certain frequencies that you can’t hear anymore when you get older. I know some people like to go with older, more experienced producers, but there’s also something with younger producers and, in this case, his production sounds really fresh and not just safe. I’m really happy with the way it sounds and happy with everything about it, really.’
I believe there were some new songs that were left-off this album. Do you spend a lot of time deciding which songs work the best together ?
‘I’m happy with the songs I chose for this album, even though some people will always ask about other songs that they may have heard me play in the past. But all I know is the way that I feel at the moment and these were the perfect songs to put on this album, including Jamies’ song, because I think it sits perfectly within the trajectory of the record. The album is more upbeat overall and Jamies’ song is probably the most bpm of any on the whole record, so it fits just right as the sort of climax to the album… And then immediately afterwards there’s 'Carousel’, which is a sort of resolution and, to me, the perfect way to end the album.’
‘I think at the Scala gig, I dedicated that song to more than one person because it was initially inspired by someone in particular but it became more about several different people that I’ve known. Forty years ago, I’d write about different girls and different girlfriends and it was usually about relations that tended to get complicated because they were physical relationships. But now I’m more in a controlled environment where I can have relationships with girls where I can enjoy their company as females but it doesn’t get to the point where I can do any damage, because they don’t become physical relationships. I wouldn’t have been able to do that forty years ago, because if I ever felt emotionally-close to somebody, then it inevitably developed into a physical relationship. But I’ve found that there’s a freedom, or a liberation, in having female friends where I can enjoy their company and maybe even flirt with them, but without things getting complicated. That’s a totally different dynamic… My songs are always about real people or things but I don’t tend to limit them to one specific person.’
Another difference with this album is that it includes Jamie’s song, ‘Master of Destruction’ and he was also responsible for the production…
‘Yeah, he produced it together with my assistance and interference, but ultimately acquiescence… Fortunately, we have very similar tastes so 90% of the time, we agree about everything. Occasionally there’ll be something that I’ll want quieter or louder, so it has to be a give-and-take relationship, but he’s the producer because he’s the one with the best ears. I’ll just give my opinion and on the occasions when my opinion is different to his, either he’ll end up agreeing with me or he’ll try to fool me… like, he knows that if I don’t like something he can take it out and wait for me to forget about it and then he can then put it back in, maybe a little bit quieter so that I won’t notice it ! That’s happened in various places, hahaha ! But young ears are much better for that job, because there are certain frequencies that you can’t hear anymore when you get older. I know some people like to go with older, more experienced producers, but there’s also something with younger producers and, in this case, his production sounds really fresh and not just safe. I’m really happy with the way it sounds and happy with everything about it, really.’
I believe there were some new songs that were left-off this album. Do you spend a lot of time deciding which songs work the best together ?
‘I’m happy with the songs I chose for this album, even though some people will always ask about other songs that they may have heard me play in the past. But all I know is the way that I feel at the moment and these were the perfect songs to put on this album, including Jamies’ song, because I think it sits perfectly within the trajectory of the record. The album is more upbeat overall and Jamies’ song is probably the most bpm of any on the whole record, so it fits just right as the sort of climax to the album… And then immediately afterwards there’s 'Carousel’, which is a sort of resolution and, to me, the perfect way to end the album.’
Most of the current band members were previously in their own band, ‘Strangefruit’. You probably already had an idea of what it would be like to play music with your two sons, but was it easy to start playing with a band who had already been working together in their own right ?
‘It was the only way I could achieve my objective, of making music again. They were the only people that I’d see regularly and they also happened to be the best musicians that I could hope to play with. And they also care about me enough to put up with having to do a lot of the work for me. I mean, I’m at a stage in my life where I need to concentrate of just writing the songs, remembering the words and knowing what I’m supposed to be doing. They’ll go along with that and do things perfectly, even though occasionally I’ll say, well, I know you’ve fine-tuned your part, but I really preferred it the way you first played it. Fortunately, they’re good-enough musicians to know exactly what that was, so it makes things very easy for me. I can control the way I want songs to sound because they take notice of my directions. When they’re playing something that I think is perfect, I’ll tell them to keep playing it, but if they think they can improve it, sometimes they do and I’ll agree with them. I don’t think I’d be making new music at all now if it wasn’t for my kids. I don’t think I would have had the impetus or felt the love… When you play music with people, it helps if you feel some sort of common bond and I know that, particularly when family members are involved, you can sometimes feel close enough to insult each other, but I’m now quite humble because I know I’ve made so many wrong decisions in my life. I can’t take myself too seriously, so I’m quite subservient in some ways and I will listen to my kids. Most people will just tell their kids what to do, no matter how old the child is. But I like to think I can treat my kids as equals and I think the music benefits from that. We’re getting better and better as a live band and the gigs we played on the recent tour felt even more powerful than the last tour.’
Were you wary about how people might view the new band ? You hadn’t released any new music for so long and then you suddenly reappear with a band featuring your two sons…
‘Well, yeah, I know what you mean and, 99% of the time it would be a bad idea, but I’d like to think that this band have broken that mould. I like to think that I’m different to everybody else, but when musicians come along and start playing with their sons it’s normally just nepotism and, even if their children can play okay, it’ll be nothing special. But when I’ve been onstage with my kids, I’ve just been thinking, this is a fucking great band that could stand-up in any era that I’ve played. The nice thing is that some people have paid compliments to the band before they even knew my sons were involved. People are often surprised when they find out…’
‘It was the only way I could achieve my objective, of making music again. They were the only people that I’d see regularly and they also happened to be the best musicians that I could hope to play with. And they also care about me enough to put up with having to do a lot of the work for me. I mean, I’m at a stage in my life where I need to concentrate of just writing the songs, remembering the words and knowing what I’m supposed to be doing. They’ll go along with that and do things perfectly, even though occasionally I’ll say, well, I know you’ve fine-tuned your part, but I really preferred it the way you first played it. Fortunately, they’re good-enough musicians to know exactly what that was, so it makes things very easy for me. I can control the way I want songs to sound because they take notice of my directions. When they’re playing something that I think is perfect, I’ll tell them to keep playing it, but if they think they can improve it, sometimes they do and I’ll agree with them. I don’t think I’d be making new music at all now if it wasn’t for my kids. I don’t think I would have had the impetus or felt the love… When you play music with people, it helps if you feel some sort of common bond and I know that, particularly when family members are involved, you can sometimes feel close enough to insult each other, but I’m now quite humble because I know I’ve made so many wrong decisions in my life. I can’t take myself too seriously, so I’m quite subservient in some ways and I will listen to my kids. Most people will just tell their kids what to do, no matter how old the child is. But I like to think I can treat my kids as equals and I think the music benefits from that. We’re getting better and better as a live band and the gigs we played on the recent tour felt even more powerful than the last tour.’
Were you wary about how people might view the new band ? You hadn’t released any new music for so long and then you suddenly reappear with a band featuring your two sons…
‘Well, yeah, I know what you mean and, 99% of the time it would be a bad idea, but I’d like to think that this band have broken that mould. I like to think that I’m different to everybody else, but when musicians come along and start playing with their sons it’s normally just nepotism and, even if their children can play okay, it’ll be nothing special. But when I’ve been onstage with my kids, I’ve just been thinking, this is a fucking great band that could stand-up in any era that I’ve played. The nice thing is that some people have paid compliments to the band before they even knew my sons were involved. People are often surprised when they find out…’
It must have felt good when ‘How The West Was Won’ was such a successful comeback, as it meant that people were enjoying your new music and not just interested in your past history…
‘I think the new stuff is in a different space and, as music, it’s separate even though there is a common thread with things I’ve done in the past, because it’s my voice and I can only ever sound like me. But even when I was playing gigs with The One, back in the Nineties, only a third of the set would be Only Ones’ songs and now, we only play maybe four of their songs. I don’t like trading on nostalgia, even though I accept that it can be a very comforting place to be. It’s a safe-haven or a safety-blanket to cling to amongst the terrifying struggle that modern life is. So I wouldn’t want to completely deprive fans of that… we’ve always played ‘Another Girl Another Planet’ at our gigs because we know there’s always going to be some people there who only know that song. But hopefully, by coming to the gig to hear that, they’ll also hear and enjoy the other songs. I’ve found that the older fans are just as enthusiastic about the new stuff because they would’ve heard the old stuff before, but there still are people who’ve only ever heard that one song, whether they’ve heard it on TV or maybe they’re Replacements fans…’
‘Another Girl Another Planet’ is certainly a song that’s assumed a life of its’ own over the years. It’s even become a false memory in a lot of cases, with people now convinced it was a big hit, even though it failed to reach the charts when it was originally released. I’ve even talked to people who claim to remember seeing the Only Ones perform it on Top of the Pops…
‘That’s right, but the highest it ever got was when it was re-released by Sony in the Nineties, to promote a compilation album called ‘Sound of the Suburbs’. ‘Another Girl’ was on one side and ‘Pretty in Pink’ by the Psychedelic Furs was on the other, but it still only just reached the Top Fifty. When it was originally released, it didn’t even get that far. It never got on the Radio One playlist and that was always very important if you were trying to have a hit single. We never went on Top of the Pops, although we did play on the Old Grey Whistle Test. But they didn’t like you playing single-tracks on there, they were more interested in album-tracks… I don’t think it was a rule, but I seem to remember being told that they liked to differentiate themselves from Top of the Pops by being more album-orientated. But at the same time, ‘Another Girl, Another Planet’ always ended-up in John Peels’ Festive Fifty and it was on a lot of juke boxes in clubs and bars, so people certainly got to hear it. And a lot of other bands carried-on the legacy… the Replacements used to play it a lot and I’ve heard recordings of REM playing it, among others. There’s even a recording online of The Cure playing it at a soundcheck… I like that one because it’s quite different and a lot slower. Then Blink 182 recorded a cover of it, so it reached their fans… So it really has had lots of different lives.’
‘I think the new stuff is in a different space and, as music, it’s separate even though there is a common thread with things I’ve done in the past, because it’s my voice and I can only ever sound like me. But even when I was playing gigs with The One, back in the Nineties, only a third of the set would be Only Ones’ songs and now, we only play maybe four of their songs. I don’t like trading on nostalgia, even though I accept that it can be a very comforting place to be. It’s a safe-haven or a safety-blanket to cling to amongst the terrifying struggle that modern life is. So I wouldn’t want to completely deprive fans of that… we’ve always played ‘Another Girl Another Planet’ at our gigs because we know there’s always going to be some people there who only know that song. But hopefully, by coming to the gig to hear that, they’ll also hear and enjoy the other songs. I’ve found that the older fans are just as enthusiastic about the new stuff because they would’ve heard the old stuff before, but there still are people who’ve only ever heard that one song, whether they’ve heard it on TV or maybe they’re Replacements fans…’
‘Another Girl Another Planet’ is certainly a song that’s assumed a life of its’ own over the years. It’s even become a false memory in a lot of cases, with people now convinced it was a big hit, even though it failed to reach the charts when it was originally released. I’ve even talked to people who claim to remember seeing the Only Ones perform it on Top of the Pops…
‘That’s right, but the highest it ever got was when it was re-released by Sony in the Nineties, to promote a compilation album called ‘Sound of the Suburbs’. ‘Another Girl’ was on one side and ‘Pretty in Pink’ by the Psychedelic Furs was on the other, but it still only just reached the Top Fifty. When it was originally released, it didn’t even get that far. It never got on the Radio One playlist and that was always very important if you were trying to have a hit single. We never went on Top of the Pops, although we did play on the Old Grey Whistle Test. But they didn’t like you playing single-tracks on there, they were more interested in album-tracks… I don’t think it was a rule, but I seem to remember being told that they liked to differentiate themselves from Top of the Pops by being more album-orientated. But at the same time, ‘Another Girl, Another Planet’ always ended-up in John Peels’ Festive Fifty and it was on a lot of juke boxes in clubs and bars, so people certainly got to hear it. And a lot of other bands carried-on the legacy… the Replacements used to play it a lot and I’ve heard recordings of REM playing it, among others. There’s even a recording online of The Cure playing it at a soundcheck… I like that one because it’s quite different and a lot slower. Then Blink 182 recorded a cover of it, so it reached their fans… So it really has had lots of different lives.’
As you were saying earlier-on, you’ve always enjoyed ambiguity in your lyrics, and ‘Another Girl, Another Planet’ is a great example of that. In fact, that’s probably one of the things that has always maintained its’ credibility…
‘Obviously, it’s well-documented that I’d started experimenting with drugs back then, so I used those references as a metaphor for relationships, and vice versa as well. But it’s still something that people can relate to on a very simple level. It was used on one episode of the TV show ‘After Hours’, where it was just a girl and a boy singing it to each other, so it can be used to illustrate very simple relationships between two people. I just feel privileged that I’ve had that one song that has lasted for over forty years and is still being recognised. Perhaps it isn’t as famous as a Beatles’ song but to certain music fans, it still means a lot.’
When the Only Ones originally came together, it was around the same time that the London Punk scene was first developing. Although you were never a punk band per se, the Only Ones did share a similar attitude with many of the early Punk bands playing alongside them and at many of the same venues. Do you think that part of the reason why the Only Ones’ legacy has endured is because you very determinedly kept your style apart from everyone else at that time ?
‘Well, when I was 15 years old, it was still the Sixties and I was hearing psychedelic music. I’d started wearing make-up from about 1970 or ’71 because I wanted to stand-out from everything else, so when Punk happened it was probably just me and Adam Ant that were men wearing eye make-up in that scene. So I think you’re right about our attitude fitting-in with the initial Punk scene. I was into Anarchy and chaos and, probably for our first couple of years, our gigs were pretty chaotic and not totally musical as far as being properly in-tune or whatever. Back then, I just wanted to make a racket and I wasn’t so fussed about conveying the songs in perfect pitch or perfect-anything. I just wanted to make a loud noise and show-off. From that point of view, we fitted-in with the times because audiences were quite prepared for chaos. But as things went on, I learned how to be more musical… don’t throw your guitar around, because if you do that it goes out of tune ! So we eventually became more musical and more rock’n’roll, but at the same time, we always stood-out because we didn’t conform to the general expectations of what ‘punk’ should be. When it first started-out, I thought that Punk was about being creative in a different sort of way. Once it became more like a uniform that people had to wear, then it was little more than joining a new regiment. Punk became almost like an institution and that was really boring, but the originators had all been people making their own rules. When we formed the Only Ones, we wanted to be as different to the mainstream as possible. Once that Punk became the new mainstream, we distinguished ourselves by not playing all fast songs, by having a bit of lead guitar and having a bit of glamour instead of just being black and white. And I think it worked for us because now, people refer to certain things as ‘pure punk’, but that just take you back to 1977 and it doesn’t have the same relevance anymore. But if you played something by the Only Ones now to someone who had never heard us before, I don’t think they would be able to tell which decade it originated from. And I think that’s what you aim for when you create something… you want it to have longevity and be non-definable. Whether it’s great music or great Art, it should have the same ability to communicate emotion and relevance at any time.’
‘Obviously, it’s well-documented that I’d started experimenting with drugs back then, so I used those references as a metaphor for relationships, and vice versa as well. But it’s still something that people can relate to on a very simple level. It was used on one episode of the TV show ‘After Hours’, where it was just a girl and a boy singing it to each other, so it can be used to illustrate very simple relationships between two people. I just feel privileged that I’ve had that one song that has lasted for over forty years and is still being recognised. Perhaps it isn’t as famous as a Beatles’ song but to certain music fans, it still means a lot.’
When the Only Ones originally came together, it was around the same time that the London Punk scene was first developing. Although you were never a punk band per se, the Only Ones did share a similar attitude with many of the early Punk bands playing alongside them and at many of the same venues. Do you think that part of the reason why the Only Ones’ legacy has endured is because you very determinedly kept your style apart from everyone else at that time ?
‘Well, when I was 15 years old, it was still the Sixties and I was hearing psychedelic music. I’d started wearing make-up from about 1970 or ’71 because I wanted to stand-out from everything else, so when Punk happened it was probably just me and Adam Ant that were men wearing eye make-up in that scene. So I think you’re right about our attitude fitting-in with the initial Punk scene. I was into Anarchy and chaos and, probably for our first couple of years, our gigs were pretty chaotic and not totally musical as far as being properly in-tune or whatever. Back then, I just wanted to make a racket and I wasn’t so fussed about conveying the songs in perfect pitch or perfect-anything. I just wanted to make a loud noise and show-off. From that point of view, we fitted-in with the times because audiences were quite prepared for chaos. But as things went on, I learned how to be more musical… don’t throw your guitar around, because if you do that it goes out of tune ! So we eventually became more musical and more rock’n’roll, but at the same time, we always stood-out because we didn’t conform to the general expectations of what ‘punk’ should be. When it first started-out, I thought that Punk was about being creative in a different sort of way. Once it became more like a uniform that people had to wear, then it was little more than joining a new regiment. Punk became almost like an institution and that was really boring, but the originators had all been people making their own rules. When we formed the Only Ones, we wanted to be as different to the mainstream as possible. Once that Punk became the new mainstream, we distinguished ourselves by not playing all fast songs, by having a bit of lead guitar and having a bit of glamour instead of just being black and white. And I think it worked for us because now, people refer to certain things as ‘pure punk’, but that just take you back to 1977 and it doesn’t have the same relevance anymore. But if you played something by the Only Ones now to someone who had never heard us before, I don’t think they would be able to tell which decade it originated from. And I think that’s what you aim for when you create something… you want it to have longevity and be non-definable. Whether it’s great music or great Art, it should have the same ability to communicate emotion and relevance at any time.’
Funnily enough, the Only Ones toured with the Stranglers quite early on… in some ways, that would seem like a good match as the Stranglers were also a band that were a bit older than most of the others in 1977 the and also had less-obvious influences. But at the same time, their audiences used to be notoriously partisan...
‘Yeah, that was after we’d released ‘Lovers of Today’ but before we’d signed with CBS. It actually went alright and the audiences were okay. The only time we ever supported someone else and the audience wasn’t okay with us was when we played with Eddie and the Hot Rods and, on that night, there was a big football crowd. I mean, it was still alright, but they weren’t exactly into us. The only other gig that wasn’t very pleasant was when Johnny Thunders asked us to support the Heartbreakers at the Speakeasy, early in 1977, and it was a ‘pure-punk’ crowd that spat at everyone onstage. That was the only time that we ever played a gig and ended-up covered in spit, but it was early-on in the punk-thing and lots of people thought that was the thing to do. But compared to those, the Stranglers gigs were okay. The audiences weren’t hostile at all and I think the band liked us because they were even older than us !’
There seems to be a couple of references to Aleister Crowley on the first Only Ones album (‘The Whole of the Law’ and ‘The Beast’) although I’m not so sure if the lyrics are about him ? Was that something that you had an interest in at the time ?
‘Well, 'The Whole of the Law’ was something I took from ‘Diary of a Drug Fiend’. “Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law” and “Love under Will”, you know ? It was a quote from the book that I just liked because I’ve always been a romantic and it was that romantic idea that will-power could get you through anything. But I’m not a Crowley devotee or anything. I read ‘Diary of a Drug Fiend’ back then and thought it was good, because I’d started experimenting with drugs and I’d got to the point of having mild-withdrawals, so I sort of understood the book. I thought the idea was interesting that you shouldn’t let drugs interfere with your will-power, because that is your essence as a human being. I thought it had a certain amount of depth as was pretty well-written and, because of that, I got hold of another book by him, called ‘Moonchild’, but I was only able to read five or ten pages of it before I decided that it was complete and utter rubbish ! So maybe ‘Diary of a Drug Fiend’ was a one-off, perhaps just because he had a bit of insight towards that particular subject. I mean, I could have been wrong and if I had continued to read the whole of ‘Moonchild’ it would have made sense, but at the time, I just couldn’t be bothered to read any more of it. But there is a certain connection because I was brought-up in Forest Hill where they have Hornimann’s Museum and, up until the late Sixties, the first exhibit you saw when you went through the front door was this ball of opium in a glass case, bigger than a football. I later learned about Crowley and his relationship with Hornimann’s daughter and how they used to finance his trips to the East or the Himalayas. In return, he’d bring back artefacts from the east and I guess that some of the exhibits in the museum may have been things he brought back… So I did wonder if he’d brought back that ball of opium and whether he’d originally had alternate intentions for it ?’
‘Yeah, that was after we’d released ‘Lovers of Today’ but before we’d signed with CBS. It actually went alright and the audiences were okay. The only time we ever supported someone else and the audience wasn’t okay with us was when we played with Eddie and the Hot Rods and, on that night, there was a big football crowd. I mean, it was still alright, but they weren’t exactly into us. The only other gig that wasn’t very pleasant was when Johnny Thunders asked us to support the Heartbreakers at the Speakeasy, early in 1977, and it was a ‘pure-punk’ crowd that spat at everyone onstage. That was the only time that we ever played a gig and ended-up covered in spit, but it was early-on in the punk-thing and lots of people thought that was the thing to do. But compared to those, the Stranglers gigs were okay. The audiences weren’t hostile at all and I think the band liked us because they were even older than us !’
There seems to be a couple of references to Aleister Crowley on the first Only Ones album (‘The Whole of the Law’ and ‘The Beast’) although I’m not so sure if the lyrics are about him ? Was that something that you had an interest in at the time ?
‘Well, 'The Whole of the Law’ was something I took from ‘Diary of a Drug Fiend’. “Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law” and “Love under Will”, you know ? It was a quote from the book that I just liked because I’ve always been a romantic and it was that romantic idea that will-power could get you through anything. But I’m not a Crowley devotee or anything. I read ‘Diary of a Drug Fiend’ back then and thought it was good, because I’d started experimenting with drugs and I’d got to the point of having mild-withdrawals, so I sort of understood the book. I thought the idea was interesting that you shouldn’t let drugs interfere with your will-power, because that is your essence as a human being. I thought it had a certain amount of depth as was pretty well-written and, because of that, I got hold of another book by him, called ‘Moonchild’, but I was only able to read five or ten pages of it before I decided that it was complete and utter rubbish ! So maybe ‘Diary of a Drug Fiend’ was a one-off, perhaps just because he had a bit of insight towards that particular subject. I mean, I could have been wrong and if I had continued to read the whole of ‘Moonchild’ it would have made sense, but at the time, I just couldn’t be bothered to read any more of it. But there is a certain connection because I was brought-up in Forest Hill where they have Hornimann’s Museum and, up until the late Sixties, the first exhibit you saw when you went through the front door was this ball of opium in a glass case, bigger than a football. I later learned about Crowley and his relationship with Hornimann’s daughter and how they used to finance his trips to the East or the Himalayas. In return, he’d bring back artefacts from the east and I guess that some of the exhibits in the museum may have been things he brought back… So I did wonder if he’d brought back that ball of opium and whether he’d originally had alternate intentions for it ?’
You’ve already mentioned Johnny Thunders and I believe you were pretty close-friends with him, also playing on his album, ‘So Alone’. How did you get to meet him ?
‘I first met him at The Speakeasy in January ’77 and we always got along well. He asked the Only Ones to support the Heartbreakers and then in 1978, I played with him and his band at The Speakeasy. When he asked me to play on ‘So Alone’, it was easy because we were already close-friends and we understood each other and knew how to communicate. I could function around him pretty well because I could get as out of it as I wanted but I’d still be the person who was relatively together ! So there was no pressure at all and I didn’t have to worry about being professional because, no matter how unprofessional I was, I was still the most professional person there ! I read an interview with the producer, Steve Lillywhite, and he said some nice things about me, that a lot of the album wouldn’t have been possible without me being there. Dave Hill, the A&R man at Real Records, had seen us play at The Speakeasy and he arranged to sign Johnny to make the album on the understanding that I’d be there to help him make it. I think he hoped that, if I was involved, I’d know how to get the best out of Johnny and make sure that it happened in a productive way. I always thought that Johnny was amazing on stage. He had a natural charisma and he was always entertaining, even when he was fucked-up… Unfortunately, that became a curse because sometimes, that’s the only entertainment that people wanted to see and he ended-up thinking that he had to fulfil peoples’ expectations by living up to it. Quite often, he really couldn’t afford to be that fucked-up, or he had bad connections, so he’d end-up acting as if he was fucked-up because that’s what people expected of him. And sadly, I think that probably inhibited his ability to produce more great work in the studio. I always thought he had great taste in music and a great taste in clothes and was such a charismatic person. But he never fulfilled his potential as far as making great records, even though he was active right up until his death. When you think he was active for maybe twenty years, it’s sad that there wasn’t a lot more great stuff that he had been able to capture in a studio. One of the other things when he died was that, even when I first met him, he’d always talked about going to New Orleans to find some local Blues musicians and make an album there. I’d never taken it too seriously, as something that he really intended to do, because when you’re playing in Punk clubs in London, doing something like that seems a very long way-off. But he said it to me on other occasions as well, so it was obviously something he had as a constant thought, even though I never thought he’d actually try to do it. So when I heard that he’d finally gone to New Orleans, only to die there, before he got to make the record he wanted to do, it was quite a shock.’
‘I first met him at The Speakeasy in January ’77 and we always got along well. He asked the Only Ones to support the Heartbreakers and then in 1978, I played with him and his band at The Speakeasy. When he asked me to play on ‘So Alone’, it was easy because we were already close-friends and we understood each other and knew how to communicate. I could function around him pretty well because I could get as out of it as I wanted but I’d still be the person who was relatively together ! So there was no pressure at all and I didn’t have to worry about being professional because, no matter how unprofessional I was, I was still the most professional person there ! I read an interview with the producer, Steve Lillywhite, and he said some nice things about me, that a lot of the album wouldn’t have been possible without me being there. Dave Hill, the A&R man at Real Records, had seen us play at The Speakeasy and he arranged to sign Johnny to make the album on the understanding that I’d be there to help him make it. I think he hoped that, if I was involved, I’d know how to get the best out of Johnny and make sure that it happened in a productive way. I always thought that Johnny was amazing on stage. He had a natural charisma and he was always entertaining, even when he was fucked-up… Unfortunately, that became a curse because sometimes, that’s the only entertainment that people wanted to see and he ended-up thinking that he had to fulfil peoples’ expectations by living up to it. Quite often, he really couldn’t afford to be that fucked-up, or he had bad connections, so he’d end-up acting as if he was fucked-up because that’s what people expected of him. And sadly, I think that probably inhibited his ability to produce more great work in the studio. I always thought he had great taste in music and a great taste in clothes and was such a charismatic person. But he never fulfilled his potential as far as making great records, even though he was active right up until his death. When you think he was active for maybe twenty years, it’s sad that there wasn’t a lot more great stuff that he had been able to capture in a studio. One of the other things when he died was that, even when I first met him, he’d always talked about going to New Orleans to find some local Blues musicians and make an album there. I’d never taken it too seriously, as something that he really intended to do, because when you’re playing in Punk clubs in London, doing something like that seems a very long way-off. But he said it to me on other occasions as well, so it was obviously something he had as a constant thought, even though I never thought he’d actually try to do it. So when I heard that he’d finally gone to New Orleans, only to die there, before he got to make the record he wanted to do, it was quite a shock.’
Unfortunately, this was where out time ran out. There was another interviewer waiting and we’d already run-over our allotted time, so I had to skip the last few questions. But it had been a real pleasure talking with Peter and particularly hearing him so enthusiastic about his new music. If you haven’t already heard his recent albums, I urge you to do so as soon as you can. If you’ve ever been a fan of any of his previous music, I’m sure you will be impressed with these records. And, of course, do your best to see him playing live as his current band are a very impressive combo indeed.
