Of all the original UK punk bands, I doubt that many would have guessed that The Damned would still be active and playing to large crowds 40 years on from their inception. But against all odds and despite the turmoil they have endured over the years, that is exactly what they’ve been doing. The current line-up has been playing together since 2004, making it the most consistent version of the band to date, and although many still yearn for the return of original members Rat Scabies or Brian James, the fact remains that the present line-up has established itself as a very popular live band and are also heading into 2017 with studio-time booked to commence work on a brand new album. It’s a far-cry from 1976, when critics sneered that Punk Rock was just a passing fad which would be forgotten in less than a year, and in some ways it’s typical of The Damned’ irreverence and stubbornness to be not only proving those snobs wrong, but doing so by playing a prestigious gig at the Royal Albert Hall to mark their 40th Anniversary.
It’s been a while since I last interviewed the band so this occasion seemed an appropriate occasion to catch up. Having already attended two of the dates of the current otur Brighton and Brixton, I was able to make arrangements for an interview before the final date of the tour at Margate Winter Gardens. But of course, however successful this tour had been, I should have realised that the Curse of The Damned would prevent things from going smoothly. Firstly, I’m scheduled to interview Captain Sensible and prepare my questions accordingly, but then it’s all-change and Dave Vanian will be talking to us. I go back and revise the questions, it’s no big problem, I’m a professional (?) But the next piece of news is much more awkward. On the night before, an urgent message is circulated announcing that the Margate concert has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances, as Dave Vanian had succumbed to a nasty virus. Now, this could have easily scuppered my plans altogether but as it turns out, the band are determined to re-schedule the date as soon as possible and fortunately, they’re also able to fit my interview in with the new plans. So, with everything back on course, I get myself ready for a trip to the seaside.
As it works out, if I go by train I’ll have to stay overnight or miss half of the concert, so I decide to hire a car for the day. My old friend and fellow Damned-enthusiast Tina decides to accompany me, which actually means that car-rental will also be considerably cheaper for us than travelling by train which really makes no sense at all, but you’d need to ask a Tory about that. Anyway, we go to pick up the car in the afternoon and this is when The Curse has one more go. Although I’d asked for a car with a manual gear box, when we there it turns out that the car has an automatic handbrake, with a button rather than an actual lever. Having never used one of these before, it’s a total pain in the arse to get used-to and it takes me a good ten minutes just to get out of the confines of the cramped car-park, while Tina lends her support by laughing her head off in the passenger seat. At least when I do finally get on the road, it’s pretty much a straight drive all the way to Margate so there are no major problems on the way down.
It’s been a while since I last interviewed the band so this occasion seemed an appropriate occasion to catch up. Having already attended two of the dates of the current otur Brighton and Brixton, I was able to make arrangements for an interview before the final date of the tour at Margate Winter Gardens. But of course, however successful this tour had been, I should have realised that the Curse of The Damned would prevent things from going smoothly. Firstly, I’m scheduled to interview Captain Sensible and prepare my questions accordingly, but then it’s all-change and Dave Vanian will be talking to us. I go back and revise the questions, it’s no big problem, I’m a professional (?) But the next piece of news is much more awkward. On the night before, an urgent message is circulated announcing that the Margate concert has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances, as Dave Vanian had succumbed to a nasty virus. Now, this could have easily scuppered my plans altogether but as it turns out, the band are determined to re-schedule the date as soon as possible and fortunately, they’re also able to fit my interview in with the new plans. So, with everything back on course, I get myself ready for a trip to the seaside.
As it works out, if I go by train I’ll have to stay overnight or miss half of the concert, so I decide to hire a car for the day. My old friend and fellow Damned-enthusiast Tina decides to accompany me, which actually means that car-rental will also be considerably cheaper for us than travelling by train which really makes no sense at all, but you’d need to ask a Tory about that. Anyway, we go to pick up the car in the afternoon and this is when The Curse has one more go. Although I’d asked for a car with a manual gear box, when we there it turns out that the car has an automatic handbrake, with a button rather than an actual lever. Having never used one of these before, it’s a total pain in the arse to get used-to and it takes me a good ten minutes just to get out of the confines of the cramped car-park, while Tina lends her support by laughing her head off in the passenger seat. At least when I do finally get on the road, it’s pretty much a straight drive all the way to Margate so there are no major problems on the way down.
Once at the venue, we’re shown through to the main hall where the band are busily sound-checking. One of the cool things about this tour has been that, apart from opening with the first album in its’ (almost) entirity, the band haven’t just been sticking to the same setlist every night. They.ve changed the selection of songs at each gig, covering much more of their back catalogue in the process and bringing out quite a few of the less obvious tracks. This approach even seems to have reached the soundchecks, as we watch them play ‘Democracy’ and ‘A Danger to Yourself’ (neither of which are subsequently included in the actual set) and then, most surprisingly, they suddenly burst in to ‘Stab Your Back’, which had been the only track not played from the first album during the rest of the tour ! Captain, who apparently hadn’t wanted to play it, looks as if he’s really enjoying the short, sharp rush of adrenalin, while Vanian is smiling and laughing as he rushes through the lyrics. It sounds great and we’re both hoping that it appears in the main set as well.
The sound-check is finally completed and after a short wait, the bands’ manager, Jamal, takes us backstage to meet Dave Vanian. Due to the limited-time, we started the interview promptly and I began by asking about the recent problems that had originally caused this gig to be postponed. I expect that, when a band are out on a pretty long tour, there’s always going to be a risk of someone catching a virus that prevents them from playing…
‘Yeah, and this was a rather long tour to begin with, so there was already a lot of stress involved just in doing it. We’ve been playing two and a half hour sets which would take a fair amount of effort even if we were still in our twenties ! Plus I’d been driving up and down to a lot of the gigs. I think we hadn’t been doing too bad, but somewhere along the way, I caught this bug from someone and when we were already at that level, it was the one thing that was enough to put me over the edge.’
It’s been a pretty ambitious tour altogether which, after the Royal Albert Hall performance, I suppose it had to be…
‘Yes, it has. But next year is going to be even busier. We’re going to play in Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and then America, which is going to be 35 shows in itself. It’s going to be quite extensive and there’s going to be a lot of long drives. Although I won’t be going home after those shows … unless somebody can get me a Zeppelin...’
But wouldn’t they be pretty slow moving ?
‘No, actually, they could fly from Berlin to New York in two days ! An ocean liner would take five or six days, so actually they were pretty good. Mind you, it would have cost you about $3000 back in the Thirties, so you would have to have a fortune to afford it… But anyway, enough useless information !’
The sound-check is finally completed and after a short wait, the bands’ manager, Jamal, takes us backstage to meet Dave Vanian. Due to the limited-time, we started the interview promptly and I began by asking about the recent problems that had originally caused this gig to be postponed. I expect that, when a band are out on a pretty long tour, there’s always going to be a risk of someone catching a virus that prevents them from playing…
‘Yeah, and this was a rather long tour to begin with, so there was already a lot of stress involved just in doing it. We’ve been playing two and a half hour sets which would take a fair amount of effort even if we were still in our twenties ! Plus I’d been driving up and down to a lot of the gigs. I think we hadn’t been doing too bad, but somewhere along the way, I caught this bug from someone and when we were already at that level, it was the one thing that was enough to put me over the edge.’
It’s been a pretty ambitious tour altogether which, after the Royal Albert Hall performance, I suppose it had to be…
‘Yes, it has. But next year is going to be even busier. We’re going to play in Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and then America, which is going to be 35 shows in itself. It’s going to be quite extensive and there’s going to be a lot of long drives. Although I won’t be going home after those shows … unless somebody can get me a Zeppelin...’
But wouldn’t they be pretty slow moving ?
‘No, actually, they could fly from Berlin to New York in two days ! An ocean liner would take five or six days, so actually they were pretty good. Mind you, it would have cost you about $3000 back in the Thirties, so you would have to have a fortune to afford it… But anyway, enough useless information !’
Okay… The Damned are celebrating their Fortieth Anniversary at the moment. Are you surprised, considering how volatile the band has been over the years, that you’ve actually made it this far ?
‘Well, it’s weird because it’s one of those things that you don’t actually think about, but everyone else keeps reminding you. It all seems to go by so quickly. I was talking to Patricia a few nights ago, and we were discussing when we went on the Jonathan Ross Show. He introduced us (cue Vanian’s uncanny Jonathan Ross impersonation) ‘And now, celebrating their 25th Anniversary, please welcome to the stage, The Damned !’ … At that point, we were probably thinking that 25 years had been a long time ! So I don’t think anyone ever thinks that they’re going to get to this point. I can remember when we did our first interview with ‘Sniffin’ Glue’ and I think I just said that it might last a few weeks or a few months, who knows ?’
It’s funny that critics at the time said that Punk was only going to last six months !
‘But I don’t think it ever had a shelf-life. I always thought the point was that it was about the music, the passion and the way it was done. You know, something without all the pomposity that had come into the music at that time and without the machine of the music industry. And it wasn’t just the music, it was Art, fashion, and a lot of different people working with different things. That was the big difference…. although we can be a bit pompous, sometimes ! But hopefully we get away with it because of everything else that we do.’
The other thing that people would say was that that Punk was all about kids making the music. But, obviously, a few of those original punk bands are still around and some of them still sound great, even if they are 40 years older…
‘Well, even back when we started, I loved a lot of bands that were older than us, like the MC5 or the Stooges and all those great garage bands from the Sixties, and I still love all of that stuff. Some time ago, we were lucky enough to get to play with Arthur Lee & Love, and another time we also got to play with the Electric Prunes. The Electric Prunes had only just reformed and hadn’t been playing since the early Seventies, but they sounded just as good and were just as vital, as did Arthur Lee. So again, I think that’s the difference. Some rock music becomes this horrible, bloated thing as it goes on, but that doesn’t have to happen. Look at some of those old Blues players… when I saw John Lee Hooker, I thought he was probably just as good as he was back in the day.’
‘Well, it’s weird because it’s one of those things that you don’t actually think about, but everyone else keeps reminding you. It all seems to go by so quickly. I was talking to Patricia a few nights ago, and we were discussing when we went on the Jonathan Ross Show. He introduced us (cue Vanian’s uncanny Jonathan Ross impersonation) ‘And now, celebrating their 25th Anniversary, please welcome to the stage, The Damned !’ … At that point, we were probably thinking that 25 years had been a long time ! So I don’t think anyone ever thinks that they’re going to get to this point. I can remember when we did our first interview with ‘Sniffin’ Glue’ and I think I just said that it might last a few weeks or a few months, who knows ?’
It’s funny that critics at the time said that Punk was only going to last six months !
‘But I don’t think it ever had a shelf-life. I always thought the point was that it was about the music, the passion and the way it was done. You know, something without all the pomposity that had come into the music at that time and without the machine of the music industry. And it wasn’t just the music, it was Art, fashion, and a lot of different people working with different things. That was the big difference…. although we can be a bit pompous, sometimes ! But hopefully we get away with it because of everything else that we do.’
The other thing that people would say was that that Punk was all about kids making the music. But, obviously, a few of those original punk bands are still around and some of them still sound great, even if they are 40 years older…
‘Well, even back when we started, I loved a lot of bands that were older than us, like the MC5 or the Stooges and all those great garage bands from the Sixties, and I still love all of that stuff. Some time ago, we were lucky enough to get to play with Arthur Lee & Love, and another time we also got to play with the Electric Prunes. The Electric Prunes had only just reformed and hadn’t been playing since the early Seventies, but they sounded just as good and were just as vital, as did Arthur Lee. So again, I think that’s the difference. Some rock music becomes this horrible, bloated thing as it goes on, but that doesn’t have to happen. Look at some of those old Blues players… when I saw John Lee Hooker, I thought he was probably just as good as he was back in the day.’
I think that’s the thing. You can usually tell the difference between the people who are doing it because they still love the music and the people who are just doing it to make some quick money…
‘Well, obviously, we’ve always wanted to make money from what we were doing, because at the end of the day, that’s our job. We’ve always been honest and said that. But I would never want to think I was just going up there and saying the same stuff again and again and that it didn’t really matter anymore. If it became that, then I’d really have to take a long look at it and say, No, I can’t do this anymore. I hope I would have the sense to walk away. But again, that’s the difference. The thing that’s sad is when you come across some of those old rock’n’roll guys who are still playing, but in some cases, even though they still feel the same way about their music as they always did, there’s no market for them anymore. So they end up playing little niche places to a certain audience because that’s all they can do. Occasionally, one of them will get a break and get rediscovered by a much wider audience again… In some ways, that’s almost what has happened to us, although we’ve always had a steady audience. But because of the 40th Anniversary we’ve started to get a lot more press recently and people have been listening to us again and realising just how much we’ve done and that we’re not all that bad !’
I think the Royal Albert Hall gig really brought that home to a lot of people who may have dismissed the band over the years…
‘Yeah, all those people who had turned their backs on us years ago and hadn’t heard us since then. They just assumed that we weren’t worth their time anymore and I think that’s been the biggest hurdle for us. We had to find a way to get those people to see and hear us again for what we really are, rather than what they thought we were. The thing is, we would never want to be up there if we were only going to be a bunch of old farts playing turgid versions of our old songs. I remember one time, back in our really early days, we were supposed to be playing at the Roundhouse with the Flamin’ Groovies. They had to pull out because they were all ill or something, and we ended up supporting The Troggs instead. I used to like them, so after we played I went out to watch their set, but I found it pretty sad. Reg Presley had put-on a lot of weight but he was still grinding up against the mic stand, and then he started saying things like (adopts West Country accent) ‘Ah’ll show ‘e what real Ponk Rawk’s all about !’ And I remember thinking at the time that I would never want to end up like that ! At least I can ask my daughter if I look like a clown when I’m onstage, but so far she tells me that she thinks I look cool, so that’s okay. But if she ever started thinking about me the same way that I was thinking about Reg, it would definitely be the time to go ! But I do think that, at the moment, if we were a band in our Twenties playing sets like this, we’d really be up there. The age thing is obviously more against us now, but we can still make sure that what we’re doing is good. But any way you might want to think about it, all I can really say is that we’ve had a good ride and it’s certainly not over yet !’
‘Well, obviously, we’ve always wanted to make money from what we were doing, because at the end of the day, that’s our job. We’ve always been honest and said that. But I would never want to think I was just going up there and saying the same stuff again and again and that it didn’t really matter anymore. If it became that, then I’d really have to take a long look at it and say, No, I can’t do this anymore. I hope I would have the sense to walk away. But again, that’s the difference. The thing that’s sad is when you come across some of those old rock’n’roll guys who are still playing, but in some cases, even though they still feel the same way about their music as they always did, there’s no market for them anymore. So they end up playing little niche places to a certain audience because that’s all they can do. Occasionally, one of them will get a break and get rediscovered by a much wider audience again… In some ways, that’s almost what has happened to us, although we’ve always had a steady audience. But because of the 40th Anniversary we’ve started to get a lot more press recently and people have been listening to us again and realising just how much we’ve done and that we’re not all that bad !’
I think the Royal Albert Hall gig really brought that home to a lot of people who may have dismissed the band over the years…
‘Yeah, all those people who had turned their backs on us years ago and hadn’t heard us since then. They just assumed that we weren’t worth their time anymore and I think that’s been the biggest hurdle for us. We had to find a way to get those people to see and hear us again for what we really are, rather than what they thought we were. The thing is, we would never want to be up there if we were only going to be a bunch of old farts playing turgid versions of our old songs. I remember one time, back in our really early days, we were supposed to be playing at the Roundhouse with the Flamin’ Groovies. They had to pull out because they were all ill or something, and we ended up supporting The Troggs instead. I used to like them, so after we played I went out to watch their set, but I found it pretty sad. Reg Presley had put-on a lot of weight but he was still grinding up against the mic stand, and then he started saying things like (adopts West Country accent) ‘Ah’ll show ‘e what real Ponk Rawk’s all about !’ And I remember thinking at the time that I would never want to end up like that ! At least I can ask my daughter if I look like a clown when I’m onstage, but so far she tells me that she thinks I look cool, so that’s okay. But if she ever started thinking about me the same way that I was thinking about Reg, it would definitely be the time to go ! But I do think that, at the moment, if we were a band in our Twenties playing sets like this, we’d really be up there. The age thing is obviously more against us now, but we can still make sure that what we’re doing is good. But any way you might want to think about it, all I can really say is that we’ve had a good ride and it’s certainly not over yet !’
Unfortunately, due to the sound-check over-running, this was the point where Dave had to make his exit as a car had arrived to take him back to the hotel. He makes his farewells but, after another short break, Captain Sensible joins us for the second half of the interview. Attempting some sort of continuity, I began by asking about some of the same things that we had been talking to Dave about. So, now that you’re here at the end of your 40th Anniversary tour, does it really feel as if it’s been four decades since the band first came together ?
‘Actually, it’s really hard to judge because I don’t really know what normal is. It’s almost like I’ve lived in a bubble all my life. When I left school, I did a year and a half of shitty-jobs and then I managed to sneak in to this bizarre lifestyle, which I’m still doing now. I always laugh when someone asks the Prime Minister or people like that if they know how much a loaf of bread costs and they don’t know. But I’d probably have to admit, I haven’t got a clue either. I just don’t know stuff like that. I’m living in this weird situation where I never go to the shops. So it’s difficult to even think about things like the band being 40 years old.’
Well, whatever way you look at it, you’ve certainly done a lot better than those critics who said Punk Rock would only last six months thought you would do…
‘The thing is, I think everyone likes the sound of a distorted guitar, a thrashing drum kit and maybe a Hammond organ… it makes a beautiful sound. What Punk Rock did was, it took it back off the arseholes who had been using it before us, but had been doing it with their foot up on the monitor, you know, giving it all of that macho, swaggering rock star bullshit. We just took that sound and brought it back to civilisation. We brought it back for everyone, that’s the way I feel. I mean, I loved Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin. I thought they were magnificent, but the antics that went along with them were diabolical.’
Funnily enough, Jimmy Page was supposedly a big fan of The Damned…
‘Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard. I have actually met him a couple of times and he seems to be a pretty nice guy. But I’ll tell you what he likes about The Damned… (Sensible brings up a play list on his laptop and proceeds to play ‘Fish’ from the first Damned album…) I was listening to this a bit earlier and you can hear why Jimmy Page would have loved it. Listen to Brian’s guitar on this ! That’s unbeatable guitar-playing. That’s as good as anyone who’s ever played any music.’
‘Actually, it’s really hard to judge because I don’t really know what normal is. It’s almost like I’ve lived in a bubble all my life. When I left school, I did a year and a half of shitty-jobs and then I managed to sneak in to this bizarre lifestyle, which I’m still doing now. I always laugh when someone asks the Prime Minister or people like that if they know how much a loaf of bread costs and they don’t know. But I’d probably have to admit, I haven’t got a clue either. I just don’t know stuff like that. I’m living in this weird situation where I never go to the shops. So it’s difficult to even think about things like the band being 40 years old.’
Well, whatever way you look at it, you’ve certainly done a lot better than those critics who said Punk Rock would only last six months thought you would do…
‘The thing is, I think everyone likes the sound of a distorted guitar, a thrashing drum kit and maybe a Hammond organ… it makes a beautiful sound. What Punk Rock did was, it took it back off the arseholes who had been using it before us, but had been doing it with their foot up on the monitor, you know, giving it all of that macho, swaggering rock star bullshit. We just took that sound and brought it back to civilisation. We brought it back for everyone, that’s the way I feel. I mean, I loved Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin. I thought they were magnificent, but the antics that went along with them were diabolical.’
Funnily enough, Jimmy Page was supposedly a big fan of The Damned…
‘Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard. I have actually met him a couple of times and he seems to be a pretty nice guy. But I’ll tell you what he likes about The Damned… (Sensible brings up a play list on his laptop and proceeds to play ‘Fish’ from the first Damned album…) I was listening to this a bit earlier and you can hear why Jimmy Page would have loved it. Listen to Brian’s guitar on this ! That’s unbeatable guitar-playing. That’s as good as anyone who’s ever played any music.’
Actually, that’s one of the odd thing when the current line-up plays the first album all the way through. Your guitar style is very distinct from Brian’s and you can really hear the difference when you’re playing his songs, much that I enjoy your style as well. But do you ever feel awkward playing that early ?
‘Oh yeah, his guitar playing on the first album is incredible and it is really, really tough to play. All I can do is virtually a cover version of it and I’ll be the first to admit it’ll never be as good. The guy was a genius, and still is.’
I remember reading an interview with you, probably in the early Eighties, when you said that you wanted to carry on playing in the Damned for as long as possible and you still wanted to be going onstage when you were 65, taking your clothes off and still calling everyone in the audience a bunch of arseholes…
‘Hmm, well, we’re getting close to it ! Except, it’s the audience who are all calling me an arsehole these days ! And they’re probably right…’
When you played the 40th Anniversary gig at the Royal Albert Hall earlier this year, how did you feel when you first walked out on that stage ?
‘Well, I was a bit luckier than everyone else, because I’d actually played there once before, when I was doing that ‘Hunting of The Snark’ thing back in 1987. So I already knew the place a bit and, if you’re already familiar with something, you’re not so likely to be over-awed by it the next time. It didn’t really phase me too much. I mean, I always assume that I’m going to fuck up a few things anyway, you know ? Either one of the pedals is going to die or the amp’s going to blow up or I’m going to play the wrong chords in one of the songs or forget the words to something… That’s just pretty standard. Something like that happens to me at every gig and I just have to take the attitude, well, who cares ? So I wasn’t all that bothered just because it was the Royal Albert Hall. I think I’ve always been the random chaos factor in the band, you know, the loose cannon… But it’s not bad being that because it means that I’m virtually allowed to behave like an arsehole, fuck-up my guitar-playing or do whatever I want and people are just going to say, never mind, it’s only old Sensible !’
Actually, that was particularly true when ‘Happy Talk’ was released and went to Number One. Instead of feeling betrayed or accusing you of selling-out, all the Damned fans just seemed to laugh about it and let you get on with what you were doing. You were probably the only person from the original punk scene who could’ve got away with it… I mean, imagine if Joe Strummer had gone on ‘Top Of The Pops’ singing ‘The Sound of Music’…
‘Hahaha… I’d have loved to have seen that ! But the thing was, everyone knew I was just doing it for the cash and I’m sure they knew I was going to spend any money I made wisely, on all the wrong things ! Which I probably did, but I can’t remember fuck-all about it because I was out of me head all the time…’
‘Oh yeah, his guitar playing on the first album is incredible and it is really, really tough to play. All I can do is virtually a cover version of it and I’ll be the first to admit it’ll never be as good. The guy was a genius, and still is.’
I remember reading an interview with you, probably in the early Eighties, when you said that you wanted to carry on playing in the Damned for as long as possible and you still wanted to be going onstage when you were 65, taking your clothes off and still calling everyone in the audience a bunch of arseholes…
‘Hmm, well, we’re getting close to it ! Except, it’s the audience who are all calling me an arsehole these days ! And they’re probably right…’
When you played the 40th Anniversary gig at the Royal Albert Hall earlier this year, how did you feel when you first walked out on that stage ?
‘Well, I was a bit luckier than everyone else, because I’d actually played there once before, when I was doing that ‘Hunting of The Snark’ thing back in 1987. So I already knew the place a bit and, if you’re already familiar with something, you’re not so likely to be over-awed by it the next time. It didn’t really phase me too much. I mean, I always assume that I’m going to fuck up a few things anyway, you know ? Either one of the pedals is going to die or the amp’s going to blow up or I’m going to play the wrong chords in one of the songs or forget the words to something… That’s just pretty standard. Something like that happens to me at every gig and I just have to take the attitude, well, who cares ? So I wasn’t all that bothered just because it was the Royal Albert Hall. I think I’ve always been the random chaos factor in the band, you know, the loose cannon… But it’s not bad being that because it means that I’m virtually allowed to behave like an arsehole, fuck-up my guitar-playing or do whatever I want and people are just going to say, never mind, it’s only old Sensible !’
Actually, that was particularly true when ‘Happy Talk’ was released and went to Number One. Instead of feeling betrayed or accusing you of selling-out, all the Damned fans just seemed to laugh about it and let you get on with what you were doing. You were probably the only person from the original punk scene who could’ve got away with it… I mean, imagine if Joe Strummer had gone on ‘Top Of The Pops’ singing ‘The Sound of Music’…
‘Hahaha… I’d have loved to have seen that ! But the thing was, everyone knew I was just doing it for the cash and I’m sure they knew I was going to spend any money I made wisely, on all the wrong things ! Which I probably did, but I can’t remember fuck-all about it because I was out of me head all the time…’
I do remember you appearing on some Saturday morning kids TV show and you still looked pissed from the night before…
‘No doubt about it ! I don’t even think I saw the hotel room I was supposed to be staying in that night. I didn’t bother going up to it and just stayed in the bar, once I found out that it was open all night. I knew I couldn’t be late for this TV thing and they were picking me up at 6.30 in the morning, so I just thought, shall I go to bed ? Nahhh, I’ll never wake up on time… lets have another drink.’
Going back to the Royal Albert Hall gig, it was a very long and pretty ambitious set, but you pulled it off really well. How long did you have to rehearse for it ?
‘I think we only did three days… and we even had to sack the first trumpet player in that time. We got this guy but he just didn’t seem to get what we wanted. He came in again on the second day but it just wasn’t working out, so we had to sack him and get someone else. Chris came along on the third day and luckily he was a lot better and seemed to get it straight away. But we actually only had one days’ rehearsal with everyone involved.’
Dave certainly seemed to be enjoying himself and making full use of the stage and balcony. Was that something you’d planned in advance ?
‘That was entirely his thing. All that theatrical stuff was down to Dave and I thought it was absolutely phenomenal. But, having said that, we were still making decisions about it right up until ten minutes before we went onstage. The biggest thing was the introduction to the second half, when we had the Dr Phibes thing up there on the Cathedral organ. The original idea was to have that as the introduction to the first set, but we realised that it wouldn’t have worked because of the order in which we were playing the songs. Things like that were still being worked out right up until just before we went on.’
You’ve played quite a lot of the songs from the ‘Phantasmagoria’ era over the past few years. How do you feel about that material, as that was what the band wrote after you original left…
‘It’s good ! I thought they did really well when they made that album. They seemed to go from strength to strength without me, hahaha ! There was no random chaos factor, but they sounded really good and they made a great record. But I do think it sounds a lot better live and, in fact, I think most of our songs sound better live, except maybe the first album which always sounds absolutely amazing. The first album sounds magnificent where the second album sounds appalling, even though there was some decent material on there. It really needs to be remixed, although whether the original multi-track recordings still exist is another matter. But I’d love to hear that remixed… then I might be able to listen to it again ! ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’ sounds great. ‘The Black Album’ had a real direction of its’ own and it was very dark and moody in bits. It was also very experimental, but I have to say that there are one or two things that could have been better. I think it was just that time, back in the early Eighties, when there was a weird thing going on with drum sounds. The studio engineers seemed to want to take a week or so just getting a particular bass drum sound, but then they’d try to get you to play along to a click-track. And I remember they came up with the suggestion that it would sound even better if Rat played all the drums individually, one by one ! We got persuaded to try that technique on ‘Twisted Nerve’, and I remember Rat in the studio just playing one drum at a time. I watched him doing it and just thought, this isn’t us ! I mean, he could play stuff like that, but if ever there was a drummer who was not suited for that technique, it was Rat. The guy is a phenomenon, so he should be allowed to play his drums the way he wants to play them. So I regret things like that, although at the same time, there are other things on the album that I think came out perfectly and I really love them. All I’m saying is, although it’s a great record, it’s not perfect in the same way that the first album and ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’ were. Those two were and still are pretty much exactly how we wanted them to sound, but ‘The Black Album’ could have been even better than it was. And ‘Strawberries’… I know a lot of people really love that album, but perhaps because I was involved with it, I still listen to it and think about how certain bits could’ve sounded better. Maybe we should try to remaster it at some point… Although, I have to say, although I don’t do it very often, if I’m DJ-ing, the only song that I’ll ever play by The Damned is ‘Dozen Girls’, because that sounds absolutely amazing when it’s cranked up through a PA. Particularly that bit in there that we stole from Spencer Davis… allegedly…’
‘No doubt about it ! I don’t even think I saw the hotel room I was supposed to be staying in that night. I didn’t bother going up to it and just stayed in the bar, once I found out that it was open all night. I knew I couldn’t be late for this TV thing and they were picking me up at 6.30 in the morning, so I just thought, shall I go to bed ? Nahhh, I’ll never wake up on time… lets have another drink.’
Going back to the Royal Albert Hall gig, it was a very long and pretty ambitious set, but you pulled it off really well. How long did you have to rehearse for it ?
‘I think we only did three days… and we even had to sack the first trumpet player in that time. We got this guy but he just didn’t seem to get what we wanted. He came in again on the second day but it just wasn’t working out, so we had to sack him and get someone else. Chris came along on the third day and luckily he was a lot better and seemed to get it straight away. But we actually only had one days’ rehearsal with everyone involved.’
Dave certainly seemed to be enjoying himself and making full use of the stage and balcony. Was that something you’d planned in advance ?
‘That was entirely his thing. All that theatrical stuff was down to Dave and I thought it was absolutely phenomenal. But, having said that, we were still making decisions about it right up until ten minutes before we went onstage. The biggest thing was the introduction to the second half, when we had the Dr Phibes thing up there on the Cathedral organ. The original idea was to have that as the introduction to the first set, but we realised that it wouldn’t have worked because of the order in which we were playing the songs. Things like that were still being worked out right up until just before we went on.’
You’ve played quite a lot of the songs from the ‘Phantasmagoria’ era over the past few years. How do you feel about that material, as that was what the band wrote after you original left…
‘It’s good ! I thought they did really well when they made that album. They seemed to go from strength to strength without me, hahaha ! There was no random chaos factor, but they sounded really good and they made a great record. But I do think it sounds a lot better live and, in fact, I think most of our songs sound better live, except maybe the first album which always sounds absolutely amazing. The first album sounds magnificent where the second album sounds appalling, even though there was some decent material on there. It really needs to be remixed, although whether the original multi-track recordings still exist is another matter. But I’d love to hear that remixed… then I might be able to listen to it again ! ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’ sounds great. ‘The Black Album’ had a real direction of its’ own and it was very dark and moody in bits. It was also very experimental, but I have to say that there are one or two things that could have been better. I think it was just that time, back in the early Eighties, when there was a weird thing going on with drum sounds. The studio engineers seemed to want to take a week or so just getting a particular bass drum sound, but then they’d try to get you to play along to a click-track. And I remember they came up with the suggestion that it would sound even better if Rat played all the drums individually, one by one ! We got persuaded to try that technique on ‘Twisted Nerve’, and I remember Rat in the studio just playing one drum at a time. I watched him doing it and just thought, this isn’t us ! I mean, he could play stuff like that, but if ever there was a drummer who was not suited for that technique, it was Rat. The guy is a phenomenon, so he should be allowed to play his drums the way he wants to play them. So I regret things like that, although at the same time, there are other things on the album that I think came out perfectly and I really love them. All I’m saying is, although it’s a great record, it’s not perfect in the same way that the first album and ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’ were. Those two were and still are pretty much exactly how we wanted them to sound, but ‘The Black Album’ could have been even better than it was. And ‘Strawberries’… I know a lot of people really love that album, but perhaps because I was involved with it, I still listen to it and think about how certain bits could’ve sounded better. Maybe we should try to remaster it at some point… Although, I have to say, although I don’t do it very often, if I’m DJ-ing, the only song that I’ll ever play by The Damned is ‘Dozen Girls’, because that sounds absolutely amazing when it’s cranked up through a PA. Particularly that bit in there that we stole from Spencer Davis… allegedly…’
I think it can be said that you’ve often borrowed little bits from other bands over the years, although you’ve always used them in a way that hasn’t been obvious and they’ve always been subsumed by The Damned’s own character…
‘Oh yeah, there has been some of that. But I think every band that’s ever been out there has done that. If you listen to early Led Zeppelin… there are clips on Youtube of the songs where they got some of their early things from and it’s absolutely shocking ! We were never that blatant. In my case, I’ve probably got about thirty or forty albums that I’ve always listened to and I still play over and over again. These are records that I first bought when I was a school-kid, but I still listen to them now and obviously, things come through from them, even though you probably wouldn’t be able to tell that’s where certain things have come from.’
What was the story with the song ‘Antipope’ ? Your brother Phil gets a credit for it on the album and I’ve read that he originally wrote the song…
‘Well, he was in a band called The Cowards and they originally played one of his songs, which was ‘Antipope’. He was playing in that band probably around the same time that The Damned were recording the second album and I always thought they were a really good band, but you know how it goes, some bands crack it and others don’t. They split up, but they had a few really good songs and I thought that one was just too good to not make use of it. From what I remember, it was pretty much the same as the song we play, even the words, although I can’t say for sure because I haven’t got a copy of their original version and I haven’t heard it for years. Phil always complains that we nicked his song and we didn’t even pay him for it, but he’s always had his royalties from us.’
Did you ever get any complaints about the lyrics of the song ?
‘You mean, from strident Catholics ? No. I think everyone realises that it’s an anti-Religion song rather than just anti-Catholic. I’ve always said we’re equal-opportunities merchants when it comes to religions, because we hate all of them ! Unfortunately, a lot of those people just don’t have a sense of humour about it, which, I must say, some Catholics do seem to have. But we hate all religions, they can all fuck off. Well, not all fuck off, I suppose, but they just need to have their heads seen to. I mean, this whole idea that you only find out if you believed in the right thing when you die, that’s just daft. You could follow something all your life and then you die and get refused entry through the Pearly Gates… you’d be so pissed off, like, Fuck off, you wankers !’
As a complete change of subject… You played with Henry Badowski when you were briefly in the band King, and then for a short while when The Damned reformed. Was he the first person that you started songwriting with ?
‘Crikey… yes, I imagine it would be, because before then Brian had pretty-much written everything. Actually, I did try to write a couple of songs with Lu Edmonds. We went into this really strange period when Brian folded The Damned and we were all wondering what we were going to do with the rest of our lives. At first I was involved in putting together a band with Lu, called The Edge, and I think we had about six songs. ‘American Excess’ was one of them… ‘Feel So Young’ was another… God, can you imagine that we wrote a song called ‘Feel So Young’ ? The music was great but the lyrics were appalling, especially where I’m coming from now, age-wise. Actually, I’ve even been thinking about working on it again and maybe offering it to The Damned for the next album, because musically it really was quite good.’
‘Oh yeah, there has been some of that. But I think every band that’s ever been out there has done that. If you listen to early Led Zeppelin… there are clips on Youtube of the songs where they got some of their early things from and it’s absolutely shocking ! We were never that blatant. In my case, I’ve probably got about thirty or forty albums that I’ve always listened to and I still play over and over again. These are records that I first bought when I was a school-kid, but I still listen to them now and obviously, things come through from them, even though you probably wouldn’t be able to tell that’s where certain things have come from.’
What was the story with the song ‘Antipope’ ? Your brother Phil gets a credit for it on the album and I’ve read that he originally wrote the song…
‘Well, he was in a band called The Cowards and they originally played one of his songs, which was ‘Antipope’. He was playing in that band probably around the same time that The Damned were recording the second album and I always thought they were a really good band, but you know how it goes, some bands crack it and others don’t. They split up, but they had a few really good songs and I thought that one was just too good to not make use of it. From what I remember, it was pretty much the same as the song we play, even the words, although I can’t say for sure because I haven’t got a copy of their original version and I haven’t heard it for years. Phil always complains that we nicked his song and we didn’t even pay him for it, but he’s always had his royalties from us.’
Did you ever get any complaints about the lyrics of the song ?
‘You mean, from strident Catholics ? No. I think everyone realises that it’s an anti-Religion song rather than just anti-Catholic. I’ve always said we’re equal-opportunities merchants when it comes to religions, because we hate all of them ! Unfortunately, a lot of those people just don’t have a sense of humour about it, which, I must say, some Catholics do seem to have. But we hate all religions, they can all fuck off. Well, not all fuck off, I suppose, but they just need to have their heads seen to. I mean, this whole idea that you only find out if you believed in the right thing when you die, that’s just daft. You could follow something all your life and then you die and get refused entry through the Pearly Gates… you’d be so pissed off, like, Fuck off, you wankers !’
As a complete change of subject… You played with Henry Badowski when you were briefly in the band King, and then for a short while when The Damned reformed. Was he the first person that you started songwriting with ?
‘Crikey… yes, I imagine it would be, because before then Brian had pretty-much written everything. Actually, I did try to write a couple of songs with Lu Edmonds. We went into this really strange period when Brian folded The Damned and we were all wondering what we were going to do with the rest of our lives. At first I was involved in putting together a band with Lu, called The Edge, and I think we had about six songs. ‘American Excess’ was one of them… ‘Feel So Young’ was another… God, can you imagine that we wrote a song called ‘Feel So Young’ ? The music was great but the lyrics were appalling, especially where I’m coming from now, age-wise. Actually, I’ve even been thinking about working on it again and maybe offering it to The Damned for the next album, because musically it really was quite good.’
It is pretty intriguing that, although you Dave and Rat hadn’t really been involved with writing much of the material over the course of the first two albums, you were still able to come up with a really strong set of songs for ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’. Was it difficult to get all that material together, or did it just come together naturally once you started working on it ?
‘Yeah, that was it. Once we had the freedom to work on our own stuff, it all came together. I think it was amazing that we had all the material for that album, but everyone was bringing their own songs and ideas for it. I was really impressed with everyone, all my colleagues. Even Algy wrote one of the tracks for it. I couldn’t believe the way it came together, because on paper we should have disappeared without trace once we were no longer with our glorious leader. Much that I love Brian. I mean, I would never have joined The Damned in the first place if his songs hadn’t been as strong as they were and his guitar-playing hadn’t been so incredible. If it hadn’t been for what he was doing, maybe I would’ve ended-up in some other sort of band, or stayed with the Mopeds. Or maybe I would have just stayed on as a toilet cleaner… Brian certainly saved me from that !’
Brian has always been very enthusiastic about the song ‘Idiot Box’, which you and Rat came up with after The Damned were snubbed by Tom Verlaine and Television…
‘Yes, hahaha ! That was so funny. Obviously, somebody had tipped him off, because I think we’d been on the East Coast already, causing typical Damned mayhem, and the gig we were going to play with Television was on the West Coast. But somehow, Tom Verlaine had heard reports of what we were like at CBGB’s and decided that they didn’t want to play a gig with us. We weren’t the sort of band that he wanted to be working with ! Maybe it was Patti Smith who warned him ? That’s a fair guess, isn’t it ? Either way, someone must have told him what we were like.’
That’s pretty-much the story I’ve been told by people who were in LA at the time… Tom Verlaine heard from someone in New York about all the high energy and chaos of the Damned’s shows at CBGB’s and decided he didn’t want you to open for Television. Probably a good move, really, because Television were never an exciting band to watch…
‘Yeah… I liked that first album, but they were never a laugh-a-minute band, were they ? You could never imagine them getting a round in… You know, Tom Verlaine puts his hand in his pocket to buy everyone a beer ! But I still think ‘Marquee Moon’ is a beautiful record.’
‘Yeah, that was it. Once we had the freedom to work on our own stuff, it all came together. I think it was amazing that we had all the material for that album, but everyone was bringing their own songs and ideas for it. I was really impressed with everyone, all my colleagues. Even Algy wrote one of the tracks for it. I couldn’t believe the way it came together, because on paper we should have disappeared without trace once we were no longer with our glorious leader. Much that I love Brian. I mean, I would never have joined The Damned in the first place if his songs hadn’t been as strong as they were and his guitar-playing hadn’t been so incredible. If it hadn’t been for what he was doing, maybe I would’ve ended-up in some other sort of band, or stayed with the Mopeds. Or maybe I would have just stayed on as a toilet cleaner… Brian certainly saved me from that !’
Brian has always been very enthusiastic about the song ‘Idiot Box’, which you and Rat came up with after The Damned were snubbed by Tom Verlaine and Television…
‘Yes, hahaha ! That was so funny. Obviously, somebody had tipped him off, because I think we’d been on the East Coast already, causing typical Damned mayhem, and the gig we were going to play with Television was on the West Coast. But somehow, Tom Verlaine had heard reports of what we were like at CBGB’s and decided that they didn’t want to play a gig with us. We weren’t the sort of band that he wanted to be working with ! Maybe it was Patti Smith who warned him ? That’s a fair guess, isn’t it ? Either way, someone must have told him what we were like.’
That’s pretty-much the story I’ve been told by people who were in LA at the time… Tom Verlaine heard from someone in New York about all the high energy and chaos of the Damned’s shows at CBGB’s and decided he didn’t want you to open for Television. Probably a good move, really, because Television were never an exciting band to watch…
‘Yeah… I liked that first album, but they were never a laugh-a-minute band, were they ? You could never imagine them getting a round in… You know, Tom Verlaine puts his hand in his pocket to buy everyone a beer ! But I still think ‘Marquee Moon’ is a beautiful record.’
The one gig from the first American tour that hardly ever gets mentioned is the one in Boston. Apparently, you weren’t getting a very good response from the audience, so when you played your second set, you ordered pizza’s onstage so you could eat them between songs…
‘Oh yeah ! Well, we always liked a reaction and we just weren’t getting anything. We didn’t mind if the reaction was negative, as long as we got something. So the idea The one gig from that first American tour that hardly was just to wind them up a bit. If they weren’t going to get into it, we’d just sit there in between songs munching on pizza ! ‘Oh, we’ll play another song soon, once I’ve finished this slice ! Can we have some more beer to swill it down ?’ I seem to remember, at one point, Rat said to the audience, ‘I’ve been on the road for a few days, now, so I’m feeling a bit knackered…’ and he stretched out with his head in the bass drum, snoring really loudly so it was coming through one of the mics. That finally got them going and they started throwing ice-cubes at us ! But I think I would’ve been impressed by us on that tour, if not for the music then just for the don’t-give-a-fuck attitude. It was just so completely different to what America had seen previously.’
Playing in America must have been something completely different for The Damned as well…
‘Yeah… I remember when we were staying in LA and we didn’t have a hotel so we were sleeping on the floor of The Weirdo’s apartment. I woke up one morning and looked out the window. There was an orange tree, so I just picked an orange and thought, wow, they’ve got their fucking breakfast growing on trees over here !’
You ended-up joining The Weirdo’s onstage at one of their gigs while you were over there, didn’t you ?
‘Yeah, I think I played ‘Pushin’ Too Hard’ with them. And I think The Germs turned up at that show as well, although I can’t really remember the circumstances…’
When you look back at all the singles that The Damned have released, it seems like the band have often released songs that don’t really match what most people expect The Damned to sound like. Things like ‘I Just Can’t Be Happy Today’, ‘History of The World’, ‘Lovely Money’, and later on ‘Grimly Fiendish’… none of them could ever be accused of being predictable…
‘I think you should always try to be adventurous with the singles you release. I come from a time when singles were everything and that’s what I used to buy when I was a kid. So, to me, that always seemed to be the way to do it. Things are different now, I suppose… Although the reason why I don’t like much modern music is because of the sound. It’s all so over-done with all the effects and the compression and the auto-tune, so a lot of the stuff just comes out sounding the same, or very similar. It’s very rare that you’ll hear something new on the radio and you’ll think, Wow, that’s original ! But I’ve always loved hearing a single that grabs you. A single should always be its’ own thing and I don’t think it even matters what band it is, the single should just grab your attention. It should be able to appeal to anyone, not just someone who’s an aficionado of the band, so I’ve never thought it was particularly important to stay strictly with one kind of sound with The Damned. I would think that would be the most boring idea and it also goes for the albums as well.’
‘Oh yeah ! Well, we always liked a reaction and we just weren’t getting anything. We didn’t mind if the reaction was negative, as long as we got something. So the idea The one gig from that first American tour that hardly was just to wind them up a bit. If they weren’t going to get into it, we’d just sit there in between songs munching on pizza ! ‘Oh, we’ll play another song soon, once I’ve finished this slice ! Can we have some more beer to swill it down ?’ I seem to remember, at one point, Rat said to the audience, ‘I’ve been on the road for a few days, now, so I’m feeling a bit knackered…’ and he stretched out with his head in the bass drum, snoring really loudly so it was coming through one of the mics. That finally got them going and they started throwing ice-cubes at us ! But I think I would’ve been impressed by us on that tour, if not for the music then just for the don’t-give-a-fuck attitude. It was just so completely different to what America had seen previously.’
Playing in America must have been something completely different for The Damned as well…
‘Yeah… I remember when we were staying in LA and we didn’t have a hotel so we were sleeping on the floor of The Weirdo’s apartment. I woke up one morning and looked out the window. There was an orange tree, so I just picked an orange and thought, wow, they’ve got their fucking breakfast growing on trees over here !’
You ended-up joining The Weirdo’s onstage at one of their gigs while you were over there, didn’t you ?
‘Yeah, I think I played ‘Pushin’ Too Hard’ with them. And I think The Germs turned up at that show as well, although I can’t really remember the circumstances…’
When you look back at all the singles that The Damned have released, it seems like the band have often released songs that don’t really match what most people expect The Damned to sound like. Things like ‘I Just Can’t Be Happy Today’, ‘History of The World’, ‘Lovely Money’, and later on ‘Grimly Fiendish’… none of them could ever be accused of being predictable…
‘I think you should always try to be adventurous with the singles you release. I come from a time when singles were everything and that’s what I used to buy when I was a kid. So, to me, that always seemed to be the way to do it. Things are different now, I suppose… Although the reason why I don’t like much modern music is because of the sound. It’s all so over-done with all the effects and the compression and the auto-tune, so a lot of the stuff just comes out sounding the same, or very similar. It’s very rare that you’ll hear something new on the radio and you’ll think, Wow, that’s original ! But I’ve always loved hearing a single that grabs you. A single should always be its’ own thing and I don’t think it even matters what band it is, the single should just grab your attention. It should be able to appeal to anyone, not just someone who’s an aficionado of the band, so I’ve never thought it was particularly important to stay strictly with one kind of sound with The Damned. I would think that would be the most boring idea and it also goes for the albums as well.’
Yeah, it’s like when you recorded ‘Dark Asteroid’ on the last album. A lot of people didn’t get that at first, but gradually I think a lot of them ended up loving it…
‘We only ever played it live a few times, but I really enjoyed that. And instead of doing it exactly the same as the record, we’d take it into the drum thing at the end, with everyone playing percussion. Monty and Pinch are both great percussionists so they really held it together, while I was just standing there on my side of the stage with a tom-tom, trying to get some sort of beat out of it. That was really hard work, because I haven’t got any tempo in me at all. But I always liked it a lot, because I love psychedelic music. It’s a track that I really enjoy playing to other people, just to show them that sometimes we do get to do something completely off the wall. Particularly the ending part of it. There’s hardly any overdubs on there at all, it’s entirely a freak-out jam. Aided and abetted by some hash-cakes that Pinch had baked about ninety minutes before we recorded it… We’d never played anything like that before, but then Pinch baked these cakes and asked if we’d like to try them… I thought they were really nice, so I knocked back a couple and then we went in and did that track. By the end of the jam, we were all just grinning at each other. It was a great day ! I think the only overdubs on there were some seagull sounds and a few other funny noises at the end. I did some crazy sort of Arabic singing on there as well, just wailing away right at the end, which always makes me laugh. But apart from that, it was all one take.’
As that song was musically-inspired and referring-to Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd, I was surprised that you didn’t play it live when The Damned played at Cambridge Corn Exchange a few years ago (the Corn Exchange was the site of Syd’s last ever public performance, co-headlining with the MC5 !)
‘Yeah, me and Monty were really excited about that ! It’s one of the things that really gets me going, knowing who has played on the same stage that I’m about to tread. I mean, tonight I found out that Frankie Howerd played here in this venue. I think we’re all quite thrilled about that.’
What happened with the Sensible Gray Cells ? You recorded an album (together with Paul Gray and Ant Thickett) which seemed to get a good reception when it was released, but then the tour that was booked got cancelled at the last minute…
‘We had a short tour booked but the promoter in London phoned-up our agent and said the tickets weren’t selling, so he’d have to cancel the show. Our agent checked to see if the tickets were selling for any of the other gigs and they weren’t doing very well. Without the London gig, it looked as if we were going to lose a lot of money, so the whole thing got cancelled. So there you go… sad but true. It was just a case that we couldn’t afford to play the gigs if we weren’t even going to get enough dosh to pay for the van. But it’s a great album, I really love it. There are some great tunes on there, really memorable stuff. I was really impressed with Paul’s songs… they were better than the one’s I wrote and he’s always been a genius on the bass. I’d have to say he’s the best bass player I’ve ever worked with, and I think Algy was really good as well. I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves for the stuff he played on ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’. I mean, some people have said that he was drunk all the time and couldn’t play the songs properly, but when I listen to that album, his bass sound is immense ! He makes the album… his sound shapes the whole record. I still see him once in a while. I remember one time, I was playing a gig in Croydon with my solo band and he turned up. He’d had a couple of drinks and decided to join us for the encore. He went to grab the bass from our bass player and he didn’t know who Algy was ! But he wasn’t going to take no for an answer… he’s a force of nature ! I always liked Algy a lot, even though I’m not so sure about the metal thing that he did later on. I’ve always had a problem with metal, you know ? I just don’t get it. I mean, much that I loved Lemmy, I never even listened to Motorhead all that much. Apart from ‘Ace of Spades’,of course, which is one of the greatest songs ever written.’
‘We only ever played it live a few times, but I really enjoyed that. And instead of doing it exactly the same as the record, we’d take it into the drum thing at the end, with everyone playing percussion. Monty and Pinch are both great percussionists so they really held it together, while I was just standing there on my side of the stage with a tom-tom, trying to get some sort of beat out of it. That was really hard work, because I haven’t got any tempo in me at all. But I always liked it a lot, because I love psychedelic music. It’s a track that I really enjoy playing to other people, just to show them that sometimes we do get to do something completely off the wall. Particularly the ending part of it. There’s hardly any overdubs on there at all, it’s entirely a freak-out jam. Aided and abetted by some hash-cakes that Pinch had baked about ninety minutes before we recorded it… We’d never played anything like that before, but then Pinch baked these cakes and asked if we’d like to try them… I thought they were really nice, so I knocked back a couple and then we went in and did that track. By the end of the jam, we were all just grinning at each other. It was a great day ! I think the only overdubs on there were some seagull sounds and a few other funny noises at the end. I did some crazy sort of Arabic singing on there as well, just wailing away right at the end, which always makes me laugh. But apart from that, it was all one take.’
As that song was musically-inspired and referring-to Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd, I was surprised that you didn’t play it live when The Damned played at Cambridge Corn Exchange a few years ago (the Corn Exchange was the site of Syd’s last ever public performance, co-headlining with the MC5 !)
‘Yeah, me and Monty were really excited about that ! It’s one of the things that really gets me going, knowing who has played on the same stage that I’m about to tread. I mean, tonight I found out that Frankie Howerd played here in this venue. I think we’re all quite thrilled about that.’
What happened with the Sensible Gray Cells ? You recorded an album (together with Paul Gray and Ant Thickett) which seemed to get a good reception when it was released, but then the tour that was booked got cancelled at the last minute…
‘We had a short tour booked but the promoter in London phoned-up our agent and said the tickets weren’t selling, so he’d have to cancel the show. Our agent checked to see if the tickets were selling for any of the other gigs and they weren’t doing very well. Without the London gig, it looked as if we were going to lose a lot of money, so the whole thing got cancelled. So there you go… sad but true. It was just a case that we couldn’t afford to play the gigs if we weren’t even going to get enough dosh to pay for the van. But it’s a great album, I really love it. There are some great tunes on there, really memorable stuff. I was really impressed with Paul’s songs… they were better than the one’s I wrote and he’s always been a genius on the bass. I’d have to say he’s the best bass player I’ve ever worked with, and I think Algy was really good as well. I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves for the stuff he played on ‘Machine Gun Etiquette’. I mean, some people have said that he was drunk all the time and couldn’t play the songs properly, but when I listen to that album, his bass sound is immense ! He makes the album… his sound shapes the whole record. I still see him once in a while. I remember one time, I was playing a gig in Croydon with my solo band and he turned up. He’d had a couple of drinks and decided to join us for the encore. He went to grab the bass from our bass player and he didn’t know who Algy was ! But he wasn’t going to take no for an answer… he’s a force of nature ! I always liked Algy a lot, even though I’m not so sure about the metal thing that he did later on. I’ve always had a problem with metal, you know ? I just don’t get it. I mean, much that I loved Lemmy, I never even listened to Motorhead all that much. Apart from ‘Ace of Spades’,of course, which is one of the greatest songs ever written.’
You were playing ‘Stab Your Back’ during the soundcheck earlier on. Does that mean you’ve decided that it should be played live again ?
‘I hope so. If the rest of the band are confident that they can play it, then I’d like to do it tonight. I hadn’t been happy to play it for a while, for various reasons, but I’ve changed my mind along the way and I agree with the others now, that it’s not right to say we’re playing the whole of the first album when we were missing that one out. There was a brief snippet of it played at Brixton, although we weren’t really taking that too seriously… But we’re getting there.’
How are things coming along with the new album ? It’s the first time you’ve used a Pledge campaign to raise the funds for a project…
‘Yeah, and we’ve actually raised a remarkable amount of cash, so we’ll be able to do the album totally properly. We won’t have to cut any corners to do it… because you can make an album really cheaply these days if you want to it that way. We initially had an idea to rent a villa out in Spain or somewhere like that, hire all the recording equipment we needed and take it over, rent some amps and blah blah blah… Then we’d just knock an album out and it would only cost something like seven or eight grand, maybe even less than that. And we’d still be able to record it beautifully, you know, with state of the art recording gear and a laptop ! We certainly could do it that way, but, having said that, I think this band deserves a go at making a really great album, with a good producer in a proper, top studio. In some ways, I feel that we’ve never actually achieved the potential that we had, and that was partly because we were so head-strong. We would never entertain the idea of working with someone who would tell us what to do. We wouldn’t listen to anyone, let alone record labels or producers, but there was one time that we had one guy imposed on us. We arrived at the studio and there he was, as Roger Armstrong (Chiswick Records) decided we should work with him. But we only spent about an hour and a half with him. We turned up and said, ‘Who are you ?’ ‘I’m the producer.’ ‘What’s yer name, then ?’… blahblahblah… ‘What have you done ?’ …blahblahblah… ‘Who sent you ?’ ‘Roger Armstrong…’ We decided that we needed to have a quick chat about it and the band went through to the kitchen. We said, what should we do about this, and one of us said, ‘I think we should fucking kill him !’ So we went back into the studio… this would’ve been me, Rat and Paul, and said, ‘Look, how can we put this… about how we feel about you producing this record…’ And just at that point, Vanian walked into the room with a black cloth over his head and said, ‘Where’s the noose ?’ At which point, the bloke took the hint and fucked off ! That was always how we used to do things. But right now, we’re thinking about whether there’s someone out there that we could work with to really get the best out of the band.’
Have you recorded any demos for the new album, yet ?
‘No, not yet, but we’ve got some studio time booked in January to do pre-production, and then more time in February to start on the real thing. I don’t think it’ll end up as a double album like the last one… at least, we’re not intending it to be. We’re all still writing our own stuff at the moment and then we’ll bring it to the table in January to see what we want to use and how much of it. That’s what we usually do and it tends to work for us that way. I’m really looking forward to it. I think the band certainly have it in themselves to make a really good album and I don’t see why that shouldn’t happen. It’ll be really great if we can release a new album next year that’s just as great, in its’ own way, as the first one was forty years ago. There’s not many bands that get the chance to do that !’
And on that point of optimism, the interview came to an end. Sensible had been his usual, friendly self and I think the interview covered a lot of ground, so I hope you find it as interesting and enjoyable as we did.
‘I hope so. If the rest of the band are confident that they can play it, then I’d like to do it tonight. I hadn’t been happy to play it for a while, for various reasons, but I’ve changed my mind along the way and I agree with the others now, that it’s not right to say we’re playing the whole of the first album when we were missing that one out. There was a brief snippet of it played at Brixton, although we weren’t really taking that too seriously… But we’re getting there.’
How are things coming along with the new album ? It’s the first time you’ve used a Pledge campaign to raise the funds for a project…
‘Yeah, and we’ve actually raised a remarkable amount of cash, so we’ll be able to do the album totally properly. We won’t have to cut any corners to do it… because you can make an album really cheaply these days if you want to it that way. We initially had an idea to rent a villa out in Spain or somewhere like that, hire all the recording equipment we needed and take it over, rent some amps and blah blah blah… Then we’d just knock an album out and it would only cost something like seven or eight grand, maybe even less than that. And we’d still be able to record it beautifully, you know, with state of the art recording gear and a laptop ! We certainly could do it that way, but, having said that, I think this band deserves a go at making a really great album, with a good producer in a proper, top studio. In some ways, I feel that we’ve never actually achieved the potential that we had, and that was partly because we were so head-strong. We would never entertain the idea of working with someone who would tell us what to do. We wouldn’t listen to anyone, let alone record labels or producers, but there was one time that we had one guy imposed on us. We arrived at the studio and there he was, as Roger Armstrong (Chiswick Records) decided we should work with him. But we only spent about an hour and a half with him. We turned up and said, ‘Who are you ?’ ‘I’m the producer.’ ‘What’s yer name, then ?’… blahblahblah… ‘What have you done ?’ …blahblahblah… ‘Who sent you ?’ ‘Roger Armstrong…’ We decided that we needed to have a quick chat about it and the band went through to the kitchen. We said, what should we do about this, and one of us said, ‘I think we should fucking kill him !’ So we went back into the studio… this would’ve been me, Rat and Paul, and said, ‘Look, how can we put this… about how we feel about you producing this record…’ And just at that point, Vanian walked into the room with a black cloth over his head and said, ‘Where’s the noose ?’ At which point, the bloke took the hint and fucked off ! That was always how we used to do things. But right now, we’re thinking about whether there’s someone out there that we could work with to really get the best out of the band.’
Have you recorded any demos for the new album, yet ?
‘No, not yet, but we’ve got some studio time booked in January to do pre-production, and then more time in February to start on the real thing. I don’t think it’ll end up as a double album like the last one… at least, we’re not intending it to be. We’re all still writing our own stuff at the moment and then we’ll bring it to the table in January to see what we want to use and how much of it. That’s what we usually do and it tends to work for us that way. I’m really looking forward to it. I think the band certainly have it in themselves to make a really good album and I don’t see why that shouldn’t happen. It’ll be really great if we can release a new album next year that’s just as great, in its’ own way, as the first one was forty years ago. There’s not many bands that get the chance to do that !’
And on that point of optimism, the interview came to an end. Sensible had been his usual, friendly self and I think the interview covered a lot of ground, so I hope you find it as interesting and enjoyable as we did.
By the time we return to the main room, the doors are already open and the audience are steadily filling the venue. This is the point where it started becoming a bit like an old-school reunion. As well as those that I was expecting to see, I start spotting people I haven’t seen for ages ! Even stranger is when I spot Ian Damaged ! Of course, in his case, he has one of his many Stately Homes in the vicinity, so he’d decided to combine an inspection of his Coastal estates with some punk-rocking in the evening…
Support comes from the oddly-named Emptifish, a Portsmouth band who were originally active during the Eighties, playing a mix of Surf, Garage, Beat and Punk that reminded me of bands like the Sid Presley Experience (who, strangely enough, I saw at this exact venue many moons ago…) They’ve got the same kind of gritty rock’n’roll / R’n’B guitar sound, but with some great catchy tunes and a sense of fun about it. Apparently, they’ve only recently reformed due to the timely release of a compilation album of original material, so I hope I’ll get a chance to see them live again sometime soon. I should try and track down a copy of that album as well…
As The Damned are playing a pretty long set on this tour, it’s another early start, and soon enough their intro tape (taken from the classic WW2 film ‘633 Squadron’, don’t cha know, old bean ?) blares out over the PA. The place isn’t full but there’s a large, enthusiastic crowd and no doubt it would’ve been busier had the gig taken place on the original date (a Friday night, rather than a Monday evening just a few days before Xmas.) But such things really don’t matter once the gig is underway. The band take to the stage and blast into ‘Neat Neat Neat’, still one of my all-time favourites. ‘Fan Club’, ‘I Fall’ and ‘Born To Kill’ follow in rapid succession before the moment that the whole tour has been waiting for, when Pinch plays the blistering drum roll and the band all come in for ‘Stab Your Back’. It sounds perfect and while most people in the audience don’t realise the significance, those who had been to any of the previous dates would’ve realised what a treat this was. In contrast, ‘Feel The Pain’ takes a slower, more macabre pace that probably owes more than a nod to the original Alice Cooper band. ‘New Rose’ brings the tempo back up as what would be Side Two on plastic now sprints at full speed to the original finale, their superb cover of The Stooges ‘I Feel Alright’. Perfect ! The second part of the set commences and, as unpredictable as ever, they continue with ‘Street of Dreams’, ‘Nasty’ and ‘Generals’, setting an entirely different but no less exciting tone for the remainder of the show. This is where the versatility of the band really comes to the fore. Songs from recent albums, like ‘Amen’ and ‘Absinthe’, sit comfortably amid older favourites like ‘Love Song’, ‘Ignite’ or ‘Plan 9 Channel 7’, while less obvious album tracks like ‘Twisted Nerve’ and ‘Under The Floor Again’ add a real range to the musical styles. The Damned have also been able to remold cover versions in their own style to great success over the years and tonight we get ‘Alone Again Or’, ‘Eloise’ and even ‘White Rabbit’, before the set finally closes with a magnificent ‘Smash It Up’. There’s only a short break before the encore ends the evening with the restrained melancholy of ‘Life Goes On’, followed by a frantic ‘Melody Lee’ and the raucous celebration of ‘Noise Noise Noise’. Nearly two and a half hours, even though they’d still left out some of their most popular songs. But I’m sure the audience were more than satisfied with the performance. Forty years down the road, they’re still as good as this, but watch out… next year, there’s going to be an albums’ worth of new material to add to the mix and with the band sounding as good as they are right now, that’s a really exciting prospect !
www.officialdamned.com
Support comes from the oddly-named Emptifish, a Portsmouth band who were originally active during the Eighties, playing a mix of Surf, Garage, Beat and Punk that reminded me of bands like the Sid Presley Experience (who, strangely enough, I saw at this exact venue many moons ago…) They’ve got the same kind of gritty rock’n’roll / R’n’B guitar sound, but with some great catchy tunes and a sense of fun about it. Apparently, they’ve only recently reformed due to the timely release of a compilation album of original material, so I hope I’ll get a chance to see them live again sometime soon. I should try and track down a copy of that album as well…
As The Damned are playing a pretty long set on this tour, it’s another early start, and soon enough their intro tape (taken from the classic WW2 film ‘633 Squadron’, don’t cha know, old bean ?) blares out over the PA. The place isn’t full but there’s a large, enthusiastic crowd and no doubt it would’ve been busier had the gig taken place on the original date (a Friday night, rather than a Monday evening just a few days before Xmas.) But such things really don’t matter once the gig is underway. The band take to the stage and blast into ‘Neat Neat Neat’, still one of my all-time favourites. ‘Fan Club’, ‘I Fall’ and ‘Born To Kill’ follow in rapid succession before the moment that the whole tour has been waiting for, when Pinch plays the blistering drum roll and the band all come in for ‘Stab Your Back’. It sounds perfect and while most people in the audience don’t realise the significance, those who had been to any of the previous dates would’ve realised what a treat this was. In contrast, ‘Feel The Pain’ takes a slower, more macabre pace that probably owes more than a nod to the original Alice Cooper band. ‘New Rose’ brings the tempo back up as what would be Side Two on plastic now sprints at full speed to the original finale, their superb cover of The Stooges ‘I Feel Alright’. Perfect ! The second part of the set commences and, as unpredictable as ever, they continue with ‘Street of Dreams’, ‘Nasty’ and ‘Generals’, setting an entirely different but no less exciting tone for the remainder of the show. This is where the versatility of the band really comes to the fore. Songs from recent albums, like ‘Amen’ and ‘Absinthe’, sit comfortably amid older favourites like ‘Love Song’, ‘Ignite’ or ‘Plan 9 Channel 7’, while less obvious album tracks like ‘Twisted Nerve’ and ‘Under The Floor Again’ add a real range to the musical styles. The Damned have also been able to remold cover versions in their own style to great success over the years and tonight we get ‘Alone Again Or’, ‘Eloise’ and even ‘White Rabbit’, before the set finally closes with a magnificent ‘Smash It Up’. There’s only a short break before the encore ends the evening with the restrained melancholy of ‘Life Goes On’, followed by a frantic ‘Melody Lee’ and the raucous celebration of ‘Noise Noise Noise’. Nearly two and a half hours, even though they’d still left out some of their most popular songs. But I’m sure the audience were more than satisfied with the performance. Forty years down the road, they’re still as good as this, but watch out… next year, there’s going to be an albums’ worth of new material to add to the mix and with the band sounding as good as they are right now, that’s a really exciting prospect !
www.officialdamned.com
