Dag Nasty are sometimes overlooked in retrospectives of the DC punk / hardcore scene, but their influence is still very much evident some 30 years after the release of their first album. They brought the melodic elements of their songs to the foreground whilst maintaining their hardcore roots and, in doing so, opened up the possibilities of appealing to wider audiences without losing their musical integrity. But while other bands were able to take this approach to greater levels of success in later years, Dag Nasty were just not in the right time or place to make that happen.
Originally forming in 1985, former Minor Threat guitarist Brian Baker started playing with drummer Colin Sears and bassist Roger Marbury before they eventually found their first singer, Shawn Brown. They quickly started to establish themselves as an impressive live act around the DC area, but disagreements led to the early departure of Shawn before they had even released their first record. Quickly finding a replacement in former DYS vocalist Dave Smalley, they went on to record their debut album, ‘Can I Say’, released on Dischord in 1986. It’s rightly considered a classic to this day. However, things never seemed to go smoothly in Dag-world and Dave Smalley suddenly departed. The band completed a final tour with temporary singer Peter Cortner before splitting, but after a short period reconvened with Peter now permanent and a new bass player in the shape of former Descendent, Doug Carrion. This line-up went on to record the equally excellent ‘Wig Out At Denko’s’ LP, released in 1987. Even more melodic than the first record, the band were becoming more adventurous and really pushing the boundaries of what a punk band could achieve. But despite more interest, including a new record deal with Giant Records, things just didn’t pan-out as they should have. Their third album, ‘Field Day’, saw yet another line-up change, with Colin leaving and a new drummer, Scott Garrett. But it was the disappointing production that marred the record. It left the songs with a undeserved, lightweight sound which failed to find a new audience whilst alienating many of their former fans. Shortly after its’ release, the band split once again.
Unexpectedly, the ‘Can I Say’ line-up came back together in 1992 to record the ‘Four On The Floor’ album, released by Epitaph. It was more of a return to form but remained a studio-only project. By this point, the four band members were all involved with other priorities and so, while they weren’t ruling out anything in the future, it didn’t look as if a full reunion was likely to happen.
Originally forming in 1985, former Minor Threat guitarist Brian Baker started playing with drummer Colin Sears and bassist Roger Marbury before they eventually found their first singer, Shawn Brown. They quickly started to establish themselves as an impressive live act around the DC area, but disagreements led to the early departure of Shawn before they had even released their first record. Quickly finding a replacement in former DYS vocalist Dave Smalley, they went on to record their debut album, ‘Can I Say’, released on Dischord in 1986. It’s rightly considered a classic to this day. However, things never seemed to go smoothly in Dag-world and Dave Smalley suddenly departed. The band completed a final tour with temporary singer Peter Cortner before splitting, but after a short period reconvened with Peter now permanent and a new bass player in the shape of former Descendent, Doug Carrion. This line-up went on to record the equally excellent ‘Wig Out At Denko’s’ LP, released in 1987. Even more melodic than the first record, the band were becoming more adventurous and really pushing the boundaries of what a punk band could achieve. But despite more interest, including a new record deal with Giant Records, things just didn’t pan-out as they should have. Their third album, ‘Field Day’, saw yet another line-up change, with Colin leaving and a new drummer, Scott Garrett. But it was the disappointing production that marred the record. It left the songs with a undeserved, lightweight sound which failed to find a new audience whilst alienating many of their former fans. Shortly after its’ release, the band split once again.
Unexpectedly, the ‘Can I Say’ line-up came back together in 1992 to record the ‘Four On The Floor’ album, released by Epitaph. It was more of a return to form but remained a studio-only project. By this point, the four band members were all involved with other priorities and so, while they weren’t ruling out anything in the future, it didn’t look as if a full reunion was likely to happen.
Indeed, it wasn’t until 2002 that they surfaced again, with the great album ‘Minority Of One’ released by Revelation. This time, rumours of a possible tour also started to circulate, but again it was not to be. Brian Baker had also been an active member of Bad Religion for nearly a decade, so finding the time for them to all come together was becoming even less likely.
But, as chance would have it, in 2012 a one-off reunion of the very first line-up, with Shawn Brown on vocals, happened in DC when the band were asked to play to help launch the ‘Salad Days’ documentary. For once, all of the members were able to do it and the resulting performance, although probably not the line-up that most people expected, was enthusiastically received. Having enjoyed themselves, the band also agreed to play further dates over the next few years and, in early 2016, finally made it over to mainland-Europe and followed that with a short tour in the UK during the summer. They also recorded and released their first new material in nearly fifteen years, returning to Dischord for the ‘Cold Heart’ / ‘Wanting Nothing’ 7”.
Having known Colin for many years, it was easy to arrange an interview before their London gig at Islington Academy but, as anyone who has ever tried will tell you, getting them all together in one place at one time is virtually impossible. But I eventually meet-up with Colin and Roger at a nearby pub and, after a swift round of drinks, proceed with the interview. I quickly explain that I’ll have to skip the questions that I had for Brian… which meant the quickest FNL interview ever was already over ! (I loved the look on their faces when I told them that…) But seriously, folks…
But, as chance would have it, in 2012 a one-off reunion of the very first line-up, with Shawn Brown on vocals, happened in DC when the band were asked to play to help launch the ‘Salad Days’ documentary. For once, all of the members were able to do it and the resulting performance, although probably not the line-up that most people expected, was enthusiastically received. Having enjoyed themselves, the band also agreed to play further dates over the next few years and, in early 2016, finally made it over to mainland-Europe and followed that with a short tour in the UK during the summer. They also recorded and released their first new material in nearly fifteen years, returning to Dischord for the ‘Cold Heart’ / ‘Wanting Nothing’ 7”.
Having known Colin for many years, it was easy to arrange an interview before their London gig at Islington Academy but, as anyone who has ever tried will tell you, getting them all together in one place at one time is virtually impossible. But I eventually meet-up with Colin and Roger at a nearby pub and, after a swift round of drinks, proceed with the interview. I quickly explain that I’ll have to skip the questions that I had for Brian… which meant the quickest FNL interview ever was already over ! (I loved the look on their faces when I told them that…) But seriously, folks…
Before they joined Dag Nasty, Colin and Roger had played together in a band called Bloody Mannequin Orchestra. I’ve always assumed that was a pretty short-lived project as it’s almost impossible to find out anything about it…
Colin : That’s fair enough… it should probably stay that way ! Actually, the funny thing is that a guy came up to me a few days ago and was asking if the Bloody Mannequin Orchestra tape was going to be reissued ! He said he’d been looking for it on itunes…
Roger : It was something we did at High School. It was a real band, but it was more like a kind of New York Noise band, you know, post-Hardcore really. But we weren’t really good enough on our instruments back then to be able to make a noise that you could actually listen to, so I guess it was probably a bit more post-punky. We were definitely trying to be a little experimental, for sure.
Colin : What we wanted to do and what we actually managed to do were probably two very different things. There were five of us in the band and there were some commonalities but there were also, like, three different variations of what we wanted to do.
Roger : Our songs would be very different to each other. If a song was written by our guitar player, it would be very different to the songs written by our sax player.
Colin : We were all still learning how to play our instruments while we were in the band, or even learning different instruments. Our keyboard player was taking guitar lessons so that he could start writing songs.
Roger : We wanted to put-out a record, so we did that ourselves. We recorded it while we were still at High School, it was called ‘Roadmap to Revolution’ and we had to go up to Philadelphia to get it printed. We made about 1000 and did the whole thing ourselves, even though we were all still at High School. I think I ended up with 500 in my basement, forever ! But we also got to play some shows… we once opened for Einsturzende Neubauten during their first tour in America. That was a trip…
Colin : They smashed-up our keyboard players’ brand new guitar !
Roger : Well, they didn’t actually break it, but, you know, it had still been in pristine condition and they kind of roughed it up, so he was very upset about it. Then, when they came offstage, Blixa said, ‘We have to play an encore, can I use your guitar again ?’ Alex looked at him and said, ‘No’, but Blixa replied ‘Yes !’ and grabbed it from him. They were pretty scary guys back then…’
Was Bloody Mannequin Orchestra the first time you two had played together ?
Roger : No, actually, we had another band before then, called Space Cats, when we were 11 or 12 or something...
Colin : But we didn’t have any real instruments…
Roger : I think I had some drums that my brother-in-law gave me and we did have an electric guitar, but I don’t think we had an amp for it.
Colin : I was trying to play the guitar upside down, because I’m left-handed, and Roger was trying to play the drums.
Roger : But Colin eventually decided that he wanted to play the drums, because he didn’t want to have to deal with the left-handed guitar situation ,and I started trying to play guitar. I remember, one day, we made this kid, his neighbour, come and listen to us. We wouldn’t let him out of the basement until he’d listened to us and it made him cry ! That was our only ever audience !
Colin : That’s fair enough… it should probably stay that way ! Actually, the funny thing is that a guy came up to me a few days ago and was asking if the Bloody Mannequin Orchestra tape was going to be reissued ! He said he’d been looking for it on itunes…
Roger : It was something we did at High School. It was a real band, but it was more like a kind of New York Noise band, you know, post-Hardcore really. But we weren’t really good enough on our instruments back then to be able to make a noise that you could actually listen to, so I guess it was probably a bit more post-punky. We were definitely trying to be a little experimental, for sure.
Colin : What we wanted to do and what we actually managed to do were probably two very different things. There were five of us in the band and there were some commonalities but there were also, like, three different variations of what we wanted to do.
Roger : Our songs would be very different to each other. If a song was written by our guitar player, it would be very different to the songs written by our sax player.
Colin : We were all still learning how to play our instruments while we were in the band, or even learning different instruments. Our keyboard player was taking guitar lessons so that he could start writing songs.
Roger : We wanted to put-out a record, so we did that ourselves. We recorded it while we were still at High School, it was called ‘Roadmap to Revolution’ and we had to go up to Philadelphia to get it printed. We made about 1000 and did the whole thing ourselves, even though we were all still at High School. I think I ended up with 500 in my basement, forever ! But we also got to play some shows… we once opened for Einsturzende Neubauten during their first tour in America. That was a trip…
Colin : They smashed-up our keyboard players’ brand new guitar !
Roger : Well, they didn’t actually break it, but, you know, it had still been in pristine condition and they kind of roughed it up, so he was very upset about it. Then, when they came offstage, Blixa said, ‘We have to play an encore, can I use your guitar again ?’ Alex looked at him and said, ‘No’, but Blixa replied ‘Yes !’ and grabbed it from him. They were pretty scary guys back then…’
Was Bloody Mannequin Orchestra the first time you two had played together ?
Roger : No, actually, we had another band before then, called Space Cats, when we were 11 or 12 or something...
Colin : But we didn’t have any real instruments…
Roger : I think I had some drums that my brother-in-law gave me and we did have an electric guitar, but I don’t think we had an amp for it.
Colin : I was trying to play the guitar upside down, because I’m left-handed, and Roger was trying to play the drums.
Roger : But Colin eventually decided that he wanted to play the drums, because he didn’t want to have to deal with the left-handed guitar situation ,and I started trying to play guitar. I remember, one day, we made this kid, his neighbour, come and listen to us. We wouldn’t let him out of the basement until he’d listened to us and it made him cry ! That was our only ever audience !
So, after these auspicious beginnings, how did you both end up in Dag Nasty ?
Roger : Brian asked Colin if he would be interested in starting a band. I think Brian had been doing a band called The 400, which was a kind of punk-supergroup trying to play pop or something, but it hadn’t really worked out. So he decided that he wanted to get back to something that was more hardcore, or post-hardcore. He wanted to build on those styles rather than just reject it, which is what The 400 were trying to do.
Colin ; When Brian first asked me, he wanted to know if I would be interested in joining The 400 and he gave me their tape. But I didn’t hear back from him until I saw him at another show and he said, ‘Well, I’ve been thinking about it and maybe we should just start a new band…’ That was the core of it, so I suggested that Roger could play bass. Brian had seen Bloody Mannequin Orchestra and thought Roger was good, so it quickly came together.
Roger : I already knew Brian, not so much through the punk scene, although I had seen him play with Minor threat and all that stuff, but I knew him more because we were both motorcycle couriers. He knew who I was from BMO and I knew who he was because of Minor Threat, so we both connected while we were working as motorcycle couriers. We were already kind of friendly and when Colin suggested I could play bass, he already knew who I was.
How did Shawn become involved ?
Roger : He was a kid that was always very enthusiastic at shows, so we thought he might make a good singer…
Colin : We didn’t really know him, but we knew people he knew, so we ended up talking to him at a show and asked him if he wanted to try out. By then, I think the three of us had already written about five or six songs…
Roger : I think ‘Circles’ was the first song we all played together, rehearsing at Brian’s house…
I’ve heard so many different stories about it, over the years, but how did you come up with the name ‘Dag Nasty’ ?
Roger : It’s a German children’s game. That’s what we always tell people.
But is it true ?
Roger : No, it’s not true at all. It doesn’t really mean anything. It came about because of some girls at our High School. We would be walking around, acting crazy, just as little punk rockers tend to do, and these girls would use this slang, like, ‘Dag, you’re so Nasty !’
Colin : It was just some sort of phrase that was cool for a short time… ‘Dag, that drink tastes Nasty !’
Roger : I suppose it was more of an African-American thing, but it was just something that we kept hearing, so we thought it would make a good name. ‘Dag ! We are Nasty !’ That’s it, that’s all it was.
Roger : Brian asked Colin if he would be interested in starting a band. I think Brian had been doing a band called The 400, which was a kind of punk-supergroup trying to play pop or something, but it hadn’t really worked out. So he decided that he wanted to get back to something that was more hardcore, or post-hardcore. He wanted to build on those styles rather than just reject it, which is what The 400 were trying to do.
Colin ; When Brian first asked me, he wanted to know if I would be interested in joining The 400 and he gave me their tape. But I didn’t hear back from him until I saw him at another show and he said, ‘Well, I’ve been thinking about it and maybe we should just start a new band…’ That was the core of it, so I suggested that Roger could play bass. Brian had seen Bloody Mannequin Orchestra and thought Roger was good, so it quickly came together.
Roger : I already knew Brian, not so much through the punk scene, although I had seen him play with Minor threat and all that stuff, but I knew him more because we were both motorcycle couriers. He knew who I was from BMO and I knew who he was because of Minor Threat, so we both connected while we were working as motorcycle couriers. We were already kind of friendly and when Colin suggested I could play bass, he already knew who I was.
How did Shawn become involved ?
Roger : He was a kid that was always very enthusiastic at shows, so we thought he might make a good singer…
Colin : We didn’t really know him, but we knew people he knew, so we ended up talking to him at a show and asked him if he wanted to try out. By then, I think the three of us had already written about five or six songs…
Roger : I think ‘Circles’ was the first song we all played together, rehearsing at Brian’s house…
I’ve heard so many different stories about it, over the years, but how did you come up with the name ‘Dag Nasty’ ?
Roger : It’s a German children’s game. That’s what we always tell people.
But is it true ?
Roger : No, it’s not true at all. It doesn’t really mean anything. It came about because of some girls at our High School. We would be walking around, acting crazy, just as little punk rockers tend to do, and these girls would use this slang, like, ‘Dag, you’re so Nasty !’
Colin : It was just some sort of phrase that was cool for a short time… ‘Dag, that drink tastes Nasty !’
Roger : I suppose it was more of an African-American thing, but it was just something that we kept hearing, so we thought it would make a good name. ‘Dag ! We are Nasty !’ That’s it, that’s all it was.
Musically, the band were moving away from basic hardcore and adding more melody to the songs. In a lot of ways, it seemed to be influenced more by the early British punk bands…
Roger : Oh yeah, big time ! Brian was always really into The Damned. He was a really big, nerdy Damned collector. He had about a hundred of their records, even back then. And we all really loved The Ruts as well, obviously.
Colin : The Buzzcocks and The Clash were also big influences. We loved the bands with high energy.
Roger : The hardcore scene was really the basis for what we were doing, but then we wanted to add other things to it. We really liked the Descendents and what they were doing, so when we were sitting around talking about what we liked, it was always those things that came up.
Shawn only remained in the band for a pretty short time, and although you did make recordings with him, none of them were released until a long time afterwards. How come it didn’t work out ?
Roger : We kicked him out, I have to say it. It happened in a fit of bad judgement. Things just didn’t seem to be working out and we unceremoniously kicked him out in early ’86, right after we played a show in Virginia. It was a shitty thing to do and I always felt bad about it. But at the time, Dave was around and we started to think that his voice was probably a better match for what we wanted to do. Shawn’s vocals weren’t as robust as they are now, probably because he’d never sung before he joined us. We didn’t really given him enough time to find his own voice, but everything was really compressed. I mean, I had only been in the band for a little over a year and things happened really quickly. We’d originally recorded a bunch of tracks with Shawn, intending to release an EP, but when Dave joined we re-recorded everything with him and included some more songs to make it a full album. Then Dave left and Peter joined us so that we could tour after ‘Can I Say’ came out. We recorded another six songs with that line-up and played a bunch of shows in DC before the band broke up. But it wasn’t until the band got back together again that they re-recorded those songs, added another six or so, and released it as ‘Wig Out at Denkos’.
You could hardly say that things went smoothly for the band…
Roger : Oh God, it was like the wheels were continually coming off ! Even with Dave, the band broke up before the second album. Brian went out to LA to play in Doggy Rock with Doug from the Descendents and the guys from Doggy Style. That was his little shot at the stars ...
Colin : That was also the time that I started rehearsing with Ian and Joe in the nucleus of what would become Fugazi…
Roger : Brian’s’ thing didn’t work out, but by then the ‘Can I Say’ album had really started to take off, so he asked us if we wanted to do it again. At first, I didn’t really want to but eventually changed my mind, by which point Doug had joined and it was too late. They also had London May as the drummer for a while, Scott Garrett joined later on and Doug Carrion was playing bass after me… By the end of it, Dag Nasty had pretty-much become Brian's band, although it wasn’t intended to be at the beginning. And I have to say, when I listen to ‘Field Day’, I still don’t get it. I think it was just something that was of its’ time and place.
Roger : Oh yeah, big time ! Brian was always really into The Damned. He was a really big, nerdy Damned collector. He had about a hundred of their records, even back then. And we all really loved The Ruts as well, obviously.
Colin : The Buzzcocks and The Clash were also big influences. We loved the bands with high energy.
Roger : The hardcore scene was really the basis for what we were doing, but then we wanted to add other things to it. We really liked the Descendents and what they were doing, so when we were sitting around talking about what we liked, it was always those things that came up.
Shawn only remained in the band for a pretty short time, and although you did make recordings with him, none of them were released until a long time afterwards. How come it didn’t work out ?
Roger : We kicked him out, I have to say it. It happened in a fit of bad judgement. Things just didn’t seem to be working out and we unceremoniously kicked him out in early ’86, right after we played a show in Virginia. It was a shitty thing to do and I always felt bad about it. But at the time, Dave was around and we started to think that his voice was probably a better match for what we wanted to do. Shawn’s vocals weren’t as robust as they are now, probably because he’d never sung before he joined us. We didn’t really given him enough time to find his own voice, but everything was really compressed. I mean, I had only been in the band for a little over a year and things happened really quickly. We’d originally recorded a bunch of tracks with Shawn, intending to release an EP, but when Dave joined we re-recorded everything with him and included some more songs to make it a full album. Then Dave left and Peter joined us so that we could tour after ‘Can I Say’ came out. We recorded another six songs with that line-up and played a bunch of shows in DC before the band broke up. But it wasn’t until the band got back together again that they re-recorded those songs, added another six or so, and released it as ‘Wig Out at Denkos’.
You could hardly say that things went smoothly for the band…
Roger : Oh God, it was like the wheels were continually coming off ! Even with Dave, the band broke up before the second album. Brian went out to LA to play in Doggy Rock with Doug from the Descendents and the guys from Doggy Style. That was his little shot at the stars ...
Colin : That was also the time that I started rehearsing with Ian and Joe in the nucleus of what would become Fugazi…
Roger : Brian’s’ thing didn’t work out, but by then the ‘Can I Say’ album had really started to take off, so he asked us if we wanted to do it again. At first, I didn’t really want to but eventually changed my mind, by which point Doug had joined and it was too late. They also had London May as the drummer for a while, Scott Garrett joined later on and Doug Carrion was playing bass after me… By the end of it, Dag Nasty had pretty-much become Brian's band, although it wasn’t intended to be at the beginning. And I have to say, when I listen to ‘Field Day’, I still don’t get it. I think it was just something that was of its’ time and place.
I would say that, in some ways, ‘Field Day’ actually makes more sense when you listen to it in retrospect than it did at the time…
Roger : I could imagine that being true for some people. But I did actually listen to it again, recently, and I still didn’t get it, perhaps because I had been in the band before then. I know where he was coming from and I guess it was another shot-at-the-stars kind of thing. He was obviously a much better guitar player by then so he was really trying to throw the shots around. There was always a Pop influence in Dag Nasty, but there was so much on that record that it ended-up alienating a lot of the original fans. Although I think that’s been lost in the time since then.
Colin : The thing was, although it looks like we did quite a lot, it was all in a pretty short space of time. We were all still pretty young and we didn’t really know what we were doing, so we were often irrational and made stupid decisions. We made a lot of mistakes about pretty much everything !
Roger : We tried different things but you act crazy when you’re young. Everything seems so important, but you only learn later on that a lot of it isn’t. It’s only over time that you realise that we’re all still friends and we all get along with each other now. Brian and I were always very different people, but we can see that now and just accept it.’
Dag Nasty’s reputation has continued to grow over the years, but the band are often missed-out or not fully represented when retrospective books or films are made about that mid-Eighties DC scene…
Roger : I think part of it is that, while I wouldn’t necessarily say that we burnt bridges, we were always focused outwards, away from DC. Brian might have even said this in the ‘Salad Days’ documentary, but we didn’t want to be one of those DC bands that were just together for a short time, played a bunch of shows and made one record. There were legions of bands that played for a while until one member left and then they either broke up or got someone else in. They changed their name and started playing a completely different set of songs. There was a lot of that, but I think we wanted to be something more sustainable and something that would tour as our main thing. We were always focused more on going out, but that meant that we were never totally embraced by a lot of the people in the DC scene. And when Shawn was kicked-out, that also alienated a bunch of people. Dave came in and he was considered an outsider because he had been living in Boston, even though he had grown-up in DC. When that happened, a lot of people treated us like a totally different band.
Roger : I could imagine that being true for some people. But I did actually listen to it again, recently, and I still didn’t get it, perhaps because I had been in the band before then. I know where he was coming from and I guess it was another shot-at-the-stars kind of thing. He was obviously a much better guitar player by then so he was really trying to throw the shots around. There was always a Pop influence in Dag Nasty, but there was so much on that record that it ended-up alienating a lot of the original fans. Although I think that’s been lost in the time since then.
Colin : The thing was, although it looks like we did quite a lot, it was all in a pretty short space of time. We were all still pretty young and we didn’t really know what we were doing, so we were often irrational and made stupid decisions. We made a lot of mistakes about pretty much everything !
Roger : We tried different things but you act crazy when you’re young. Everything seems so important, but you only learn later on that a lot of it isn’t. It’s only over time that you realise that we’re all still friends and we all get along with each other now. Brian and I were always very different people, but we can see that now and just accept it.’
Dag Nasty’s reputation has continued to grow over the years, but the band are often missed-out or not fully represented when retrospective books or films are made about that mid-Eighties DC scene…
Roger : I think part of it is that, while I wouldn’t necessarily say that we burnt bridges, we were always focused outwards, away from DC. Brian might have even said this in the ‘Salad Days’ documentary, but we didn’t want to be one of those DC bands that were just together for a short time, played a bunch of shows and made one record. There were legions of bands that played for a while until one member left and then they either broke up or got someone else in. They changed their name and started playing a completely different set of songs. There was a lot of that, but I think we wanted to be something more sustainable and something that would tour as our main thing. We were always focused more on going out, but that meant that we were never totally embraced by a lot of the people in the DC scene. And when Shawn was kicked-out, that also alienated a bunch of people. Dave came in and he was considered an outsider because he had been living in Boston, even though he had grown-up in DC. When that happened, a lot of people treated us like a totally different band.
Over the years since Dag Nasty originally ended, there have been various studio-only reunions of the ‘Can I Say’ line-up, resulting in the ‘Four on the Floor’ and ‘Minority of One’ albums. Had you ever considered playing live at those times ?
Roger : We considered it, but we could never schedule it. Brian was a full-time member of Bad Religion, I was working in Boston, Colin was in Portland, Dave was either in LA or Virginia and was also doing Down By Law, so it was always very hard to organise things. We talked about it and I think it was something we wanted to do, but we never managed to do it. I think we all decided, if it happens, great, but if it doesn’t, then fine.
About five years ago, Brian was quoted in an interview that Dag Nasty might be do some new recordings with Peter Cortner. Did anything ever come of that ?
Roger : No, although it was something that we talked about…
Colin : I think it was some time after we released ‘Minority of One’. We were talking and it came up that if we were to do another record, maybe it would be interesting to do it with Peter. But soon after that was when both Roger and I both became parents and everybody was so busy again that we sort of forgot about it. It wasn’t until four years ago that we were suddenly asked if the band would play a one-off show just playing the early material with Shawn. The ‘Dag With Shawn’ album had recently come out on Dischord, but this show was going to be part of the launch for the ‘Salad Days’ documentary. Brian called me and Roger, I called Shawn, and within 48 hours it all came together. As it turned out, I was already going to DC for something else, so we were able to meet up at Brian’s house. Roger, Brian and I set-up in his basement and decided to see how it would be before we fully committed. Literally, we hadn’t played those songs together in over 25 years, but we still sounded pretty good and that was when we decided that we would do that one show. We knew that the band would sound fine and it would be cool to play with Shawn again… I don’t mean this in a cheesy way, but it would be healing for us as well.
Roger : Yeah, that felt really good. He was down for it and he was the nicest guy in the world about everything. We were all saying that we were sorry about what had happened,and he was saying it was all fine now. I mean, he went on and did Swiz, so it wasn’t as if he’d been kicked to the kerb and left there.
Roger : We considered it, but we could never schedule it. Brian was a full-time member of Bad Religion, I was working in Boston, Colin was in Portland, Dave was either in LA or Virginia and was also doing Down By Law, so it was always very hard to organise things. We talked about it and I think it was something we wanted to do, but we never managed to do it. I think we all decided, if it happens, great, but if it doesn’t, then fine.
About five years ago, Brian was quoted in an interview that Dag Nasty might be do some new recordings with Peter Cortner. Did anything ever come of that ?
Roger : No, although it was something that we talked about…
Colin : I think it was some time after we released ‘Minority of One’. We were talking and it came up that if we were to do another record, maybe it would be interesting to do it with Peter. But soon after that was when both Roger and I both became parents and everybody was so busy again that we sort of forgot about it. It wasn’t until four years ago that we were suddenly asked if the band would play a one-off show just playing the early material with Shawn. The ‘Dag With Shawn’ album had recently come out on Dischord, but this show was going to be part of the launch for the ‘Salad Days’ documentary. Brian called me and Roger, I called Shawn, and within 48 hours it all came together. As it turned out, I was already going to DC for something else, so we were able to meet up at Brian’s house. Roger, Brian and I set-up in his basement and decided to see how it would be before we fully committed. Literally, we hadn’t played those songs together in over 25 years, but we still sounded pretty good and that was when we decided that we would do that one show. We knew that the band would sound fine and it would be cool to play with Shawn again… I don’t mean this in a cheesy way, but it would be healing for us as well.
Roger : Yeah, that felt really good. He was down for it and he was the nicest guy in the world about everything. We were all saying that we were sorry about what had happened,and he was saying it was all fine now. I mean, he went on and did Swiz, so it wasn’t as if he’d been kicked to the kerb and left there.
As that was initially intended as a one-off, when did you decide to continue playing live ?
Colin : After we played the show in DC, we were asked to play at the ‘Fun, Fun, Fun’ festival in Austin, but it actually took quite a while before we were able to do it.
Roger : Yeah, we were originally asked to do it in 2014 but we couldn’t manage that. Finally, we were able to make it come together last year.
Colin : Then we were asked to play in Europe…
Roger : It started to become something where we could figure-out a schedule. If we get an offer to play a festival somewhere, we try to figure-out how we can arrange a small tour around it. That’s pretty-much what we’re doing now, just seeing how it goes and what we can handle, time-wise. We’ve all got our own lives, careers and obligations so we have to find a way that we can do this without losing money, otherwise you’d be letting down the other people in your life. You know, they’d soon be asking, ‘Why are you spending all your vacation time away from home, losing money and trying to relive your youth ?’ But if we can carry-on doing things like this, it’ll make enough money to pay for itself and hopefully let us go beyond what we’re doing now.
All of you have been involved in different bands and music between your original time in Dag Nasty and now. Do you think that adds to how you approach what you're doing now ?
Roger : Well, I haven’t done any other music since I was in Alloy, which was 1994. But playing with them definitely gave me a whole different set of experiences. And I think it would have been really weird if I hadn’t done anything else in between. They would really have had to dust me off before I could do it again !
Colin ; Obviously, Brian has carried on playing music all the way through, but everyone has done other things and I think we’re all better musicians, now. Shawn is much better than he was, which is great. The other thing is that we never used to play very long sets. Even when we were playing on the Descendents tour, which were probably the longest sets we played back then, I think we only played about 40 minutes… maybe ! If we were playing a regular show, we only used to play 25 or 30 minute sets. But now, we’re up to an hour or so and our stamina is much better so it gives us a chance to play a wider range of songs. When you’re young, you tend to just go wild onstage and it takes everything out of you, but as you get older you realise that there’s more you can do.
Roger : Also, when you’ve played with different bands and people, it helps you realise that there’s more to the world than just this little microcosm that you’re in. People play in other ways and approach things differently. We’re all a lot more tolerant of everyone else and how they do their thing. Also, as Dag Nasty isn’t the main thing in our lives right now, I think we can all be a little more relaxed about it. And I think that Brian being in Bad Religion makes things a lot easier for us. We get to use their backline and we can use their contacts when we need to book shows or whatever. That all helps to make things more likely to happen.
Colin : Logistically, it makes things a lot easier. But also on the music side, as Brian has been touring for so long, he has so many little tips that are really helpful.
Roger : Oh, yeah, he’s got it all figured-out and we’re happy to ride on his coattails !
Colin : After we played the show in DC, we were asked to play at the ‘Fun, Fun, Fun’ festival in Austin, but it actually took quite a while before we were able to do it.
Roger : Yeah, we were originally asked to do it in 2014 but we couldn’t manage that. Finally, we were able to make it come together last year.
Colin : Then we were asked to play in Europe…
Roger : It started to become something where we could figure-out a schedule. If we get an offer to play a festival somewhere, we try to figure-out how we can arrange a small tour around it. That’s pretty-much what we’re doing now, just seeing how it goes and what we can handle, time-wise. We’ve all got our own lives, careers and obligations so we have to find a way that we can do this without losing money, otherwise you’d be letting down the other people in your life. You know, they’d soon be asking, ‘Why are you spending all your vacation time away from home, losing money and trying to relive your youth ?’ But if we can carry-on doing things like this, it’ll make enough money to pay for itself and hopefully let us go beyond what we’re doing now.
All of you have been involved in different bands and music between your original time in Dag Nasty and now. Do you think that adds to how you approach what you're doing now ?
Roger : Well, I haven’t done any other music since I was in Alloy, which was 1994. But playing with them definitely gave me a whole different set of experiences. And I think it would have been really weird if I hadn’t done anything else in between. They would really have had to dust me off before I could do it again !
Colin ; Obviously, Brian has carried on playing music all the way through, but everyone has done other things and I think we’re all better musicians, now. Shawn is much better than he was, which is great. The other thing is that we never used to play very long sets. Even when we were playing on the Descendents tour, which were probably the longest sets we played back then, I think we only played about 40 minutes… maybe ! If we were playing a regular show, we only used to play 25 or 30 minute sets. But now, we’re up to an hour or so and our stamina is much better so it gives us a chance to play a wider range of songs. When you’re young, you tend to just go wild onstage and it takes everything out of you, but as you get older you realise that there’s more you can do.
Roger : Also, when you’ve played with different bands and people, it helps you realise that there’s more to the world than just this little microcosm that you’re in. People play in other ways and approach things differently. We’re all a lot more tolerant of everyone else and how they do their thing. Also, as Dag Nasty isn’t the main thing in our lives right now, I think we can all be a little more relaxed about it. And I think that Brian being in Bad Religion makes things a lot easier for us. We get to use their backline and we can use their contacts when we need to book shows or whatever. That all helps to make things more likely to happen.
Colin : Logistically, it makes things a lot easier. But also on the music side, as Brian has been touring for so long, he has so many little tips that are really helpful.
Roger : Oh, yeah, he’s got it all figured-out and we’re happy to ride on his coattails !
You’ve recently released a new single, ‘Cold Heart’, which is the first new material since ‘Minority of One’. You also returned to Dischord for its’ release. Was there any particular reason for that ?
Roger : It just seemed appropriate. As we were playing with Shawn, we liked the idea of taking it back to the original thing. We were playing all the old songs again, so Brian asked Ian and he said, ‘Sure.’ We’re all friends, so it was as simple as that.
Colin : The great thing about working with Dischord is that we’re in full control of everything.
Roger : They’re also the most honest, straight-forward label, as you would imagine they would be. It’s always really easy to work with them. We’re back with our friends, Ian and Don at Inner Ear… it’s a happy little team. It was also fun for us, because Dag Nasty never released any singles while we were in the band. It was really quick and Ian produced it, which was great because he brought so much to the table and really helped to make it sound good. We were still kind of fleshing out the songs even when we were in the studio and there were a few little things that didn’t seem to be working. But Ian was making suggestions and when we tried them out, they were great.
Are you playing any other new songs live yet ?
Roger : No, just the two songs from the single, but we want to do more.
Colin : We played with the Descendents at Punk Rock Bowling, recently, and afterwards I was talking to Milo. He was saying that they’d played five new songs in their set, which no-one had heard before, so they’d received half the response that the older songs had got. But now that their new album is out, people want to hear the new songs… So maybe we should hold back on anything other than the tracks from the single until we’re ready to release something else.
Roger : We certainly want to record more stuff, but like everything else, it’s just a matter of having the time and all the other logistics.
How is the actual song-writing shared within the band ?
Roger : It usually comes from Brian, musically, and Shawn wrote all the lyrics for the new single. But we’re all involved with how the songs come together, even though Brian is always the primary motivator.
Colin : Brian will come in with the song, like, 85% done, and then we’ll add our parts to it. We’ll add our own nuances to complete it. In ‘Cold Heart’, for example, there’s a cool little change in the verse which Roger came up with.
Roger : Yeah, we’re all in there. But that’s what makes a band, the way that we’re all a part of the thing. I mean, back in the day, Brian used to make fun of me for noodling around on the bass, but that’s just my sound and now that he’s realised that, he totally embraces it. That’s just the way things work.
So, finally, after this short tour, do you have any further plans actually lined-up, yet ?
Roger : Nothing solid, but we are talking about some East Coast dates later this year. If we can work that out, it’ll be great, but otherwise, we’re starting to talk about what we might be able to do next year. We’re all enjoying it, so one way or another we’re going to carry on.
Roger : It just seemed appropriate. As we were playing with Shawn, we liked the idea of taking it back to the original thing. We were playing all the old songs again, so Brian asked Ian and he said, ‘Sure.’ We’re all friends, so it was as simple as that.
Colin : The great thing about working with Dischord is that we’re in full control of everything.
Roger : They’re also the most honest, straight-forward label, as you would imagine they would be. It’s always really easy to work with them. We’re back with our friends, Ian and Don at Inner Ear… it’s a happy little team. It was also fun for us, because Dag Nasty never released any singles while we were in the band. It was really quick and Ian produced it, which was great because he brought so much to the table and really helped to make it sound good. We were still kind of fleshing out the songs even when we were in the studio and there were a few little things that didn’t seem to be working. But Ian was making suggestions and when we tried them out, they were great.
Are you playing any other new songs live yet ?
Roger : No, just the two songs from the single, but we want to do more.
Colin : We played with the Descendents at Punk Rock Bowling, recently, and afterwards I was talking to Milo. He was saying that they’d played five new songs in their set, which no-one had heard before, so they’d received half the response that the older songs had got. But now that their new album is out, people want to hear the new songs… So maybe we should hold back on anything other than the tracks from the single until we’re ready to release something else.
Roger : We certainly want to record more stuff, but like everything else, it’s just a matter of having the time and all the other logistics.
How is the actual song-writing shared within the band ?
Roger : It usually comes from Brian, musically, and Shawn wrote all the lyrics for the new single. But we’re all involved with how the songs come together, even though Brian is always the primary motivator.
Colin : Brian will come in with the song, like, 85% done, and then we’ll add our parts to it. We’ll add our own nuances to complete it. In ‘Cold Heart’, for example, there’s a cool little change in the verse which Roger came up with.
Roger : Yeah, we’re all in there. But that’s what makes a band, the way that we’re all a part of the thing. I mean, back in the day, Brian used to make fun of me for noodling around on the bass, but that’s just my sound and now that he’s realised that, he totally embraces it. That’s just the way things work.
So, finally, after this short tour, do you have any further plans actually lined-up, yet ?
Roger : Nothing solid, but we are talking about some East Coast dates later this year. If we can work that out, it’ll be great, but otherwise, we’re starting to talk about what we might be able to do next year. We’re all enjoying it, so one way or another we’re going to carry on.
With it getting close to their stage-time, we end the interview there and head over to the venue. The place isn’t packed but it’s comfortably full and a large audience is waiting to see them (which probably would have been even larger had the date not been right after Rebellion weekend.) There’s a real sense of anticipation in the air and when they arrive onstage, they get straight into it. Shawn asks, ‘Who’s ready for some DC hardcore ?’ before they launch into ‘Values Here’, ‘I’ve Heard’ and ‘Under Your influence’. They sound great and while I must admit that I was wary about whether Shawn’s vocals would be able to handle later songs like ‘The Godfather’ and ‘All Ages Show’, his range is much wider now and he nails them. ‘Cold Heart’ and ‘Wanting Nothing’ sound even better than they do on the recent single, suggesting that further new material is going to be an exciting prospect. Most of the set is taken from the first two albums, but a few surprises turn-up with covers of ‘Ghost’, from Shawn’s previous band, Swiz, and ‘Little Friend’, recalling Brian’s escapades in Minor Threat. The set ends with ‘What Now ?’ and ‘Justification’ before they are called back for a well-deserved encore. Brian pays tribute to his old friend, the recently-departed John Stabb, before the band play a great version of Government Issue’s ‘Understand’, followed by an equally powerful cover of ‘Staring At the Rude Boys’. The show finally ends with ‘Never Go Back’, providing the perfect end to a gig that many thought was never going to happen. Dag Nasty finally made it to London and proved that late can certainly be much better than never.
Afterwards, a bunch of us return to the pub and celebrate with a few more beers. We had finally seen Dag Nasty and while it had taken much longer than anyone had expected, and it probably wasn't the line-up we had expected to see if it did ever happen, the band had more than lived up to expectations. So, I look forward to seeing them again, perhaps even with Dave Smalley and Peter Cortner onboard, somehow. And this time, I’ll be happy to wait. But not too long !
www.daghouse.com
Afterwards, a bunch of us return to the pub and celebrate with a few more beers. We had finally seen Dag Nasty and while it had taken much longer than anyone had expected, and it probably wasn't the line-up we had expected to see if it did ever happen, the band had more than lived up to expectations. So, I look forward to seeing them again, perhaps even with Dave Smalley and Peter Cortner onboard, somehow. And this time, I’ll be happy to wait. But not too long !
www.daghouse.com
